more examples of criminalization of self-defense

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by kazenatsu, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Increasingly, in many parts of the country, attitudes are becoming more common that people do not have the right to defend themselves, and when people do defend themselves they are, in incidences which are becoming increasingly more frequent, finding themselves facing serious criminal charges.


    Jan 10, 2018
    Westland, Michigan

    A Detroit-area Marine was shot during an alleged home invasion - but he's the one locked up and facing charges.

    Friday night, Nelson's family says Joey Nelson had been inside with his fiancée, their 3-week-old son and a couple of friends when someone violently started to knock on the door trying to get in.

    Westland police say the man outside was 39-year-old Michael Wilson of Detroit.
    "I don't know (who he is); my son doesn't know him; the owner of the home doesn't know him," says Steve.

    Cracking the door frame, the family says Joey grabbed his gun and yelled for Wilson to leave.

    "He opened up the door because he was standing here in the yard," Steve says. "(Joey) told him to get off his property and at that time (Wilson) produced a gun and started shooting at my son."

    Joey's family says the young Marine was shot in the hip before calling 911 and telling everyone to get downstairs. Joey fired back at Wilson, who they say took off as police arrived.

    FOX 2 noticed the large amount of bullet holes at the home.

    "Yes ma'am, there are quite a few. This gentleman was not here for coffee," Steve responded.

    Westland police say that a fight over a mutual female friend inside the home led to the shooting. Joey is now charged with several felonies, including assault with intent to murder.
    Although Joey is charged with several felonies, Wilson is only charged with carrying a concealed weapon.

    "This man out here in the front yard fired multiple shots into a house with multiple people inside and a 3-week-old baby. Simple. And he's (only) charged with concealing a weapon illegally?" Steve asks.

    Also charged was 24-year-old Kori Willhite of Garden City for disguising her identification to a police officer and possession of improper prescription drugs.

    Now, as Joey sits in jail on a $150,000 cash bond, his family says they don't understand why he's being charged at all.

    www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/marine-1-of-3-arrested-after-exchanging-gunfire-with-man-trying-to-barge-into-home#
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  2. Texan

    Texan Well-Known Member

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    That’s obscene. I’m never moving out of Texas.
     
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  3. Nonsensei436

    Nonsensei436 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One side of the story (the marine's family), and no info from officials for the reasons they are charging him.

    This story is pitifully incomplete.
     
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  4. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Something not quite right with this story. I can't find where any major news agency has picked up the story. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It may have been possible he fired some shots after the intruder had already run out the door. In that case he would be in violation of Michigan law:
    www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/03/gun_owners_need_to_understand.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  6. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  7. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’m not convinced it’s that simple based on the article you linked. There is a throw-away line saying “Westland police say that a fight over a mutual female friend inside the home led to the shooting” which suggests the sequence of events described may not have been complete or entirely accurate and we have absolutely nothing from the other shooter (not even a reference to any attempt to contact them).

    If the sequence of events was exactly as described then the charges do sound wrong and you’d have a valid point. The very fact of that inconsistency suggests something isn’t right though and that isn’t automatically the police (whatever your personal opinion might be).
     
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  8. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I agree" this is an incomplete account.
     
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More insight into this case:
    Looks like the prosecutor is trying to coerce him into pleading it out.

    Here's Wayne county prosecutor, Kym Worthy, the one charging Nelson with multiple felonies and giving Wilson a slap on the wrist:

    [​IMG]


    Some more information:
    and this:
    Looks like “disguising” your identity to police and being in “possession of improper prescription drugs” is being treated as a more serious crime than shooting someone.

    http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/marine-jailed-shooting-armed-home-invader/


    I don't want to jump to any prejudiced conclusions here... but the pieces are starting to come together...
    I hope the prosecutor isn't in the camp that believes home invaders are always the victims when someone shoots at them.
    This is in the surrounding Detroit area, let's remember.
    hope I'm wrong here
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  10. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The left wants the state to have a monopoly on force; this necessarily includes the criminalization of self-defense.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  11. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Why is Nelson being charged with felony possession of a firearm? is he a prohibited person?
     
  12. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Could be a licence and or Registration issue or he was as you said: a prohibited person in illegal possession of a firearm, or sometimes the Felonious possession charge is added, post commission of a Felony, or other applicable offense, ie Holding someone up at gun point, becomes Felonious possession of a firearm in connection with the commission of a crime, ie a Felony.

    Example: Conspiracy to commit a Misdemeanor, is in fact, a Felony..
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Gotcha. I think we are missing a lot of information with this story.
     
  14. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And, it is also a further attempt at normalizing the erosion of civil rights; use a weapon to defend yourself, and the burden of proof is on you to prove you had a legitimate need. It is part and parcel of a broader attack on Constitutional rights that is accelerating, attacks on the 1st, 4th, 10th Amendments along with delegitimization of the court system replacing it with mob justice.
    Gun rights advocates have long argued, where goes the 2nd, goes civil rights. Because the LW identifies political opposition with voting gun owners the have mounted a long term campaign to vilify, marginalize, and criminalize that opposition.
    This tactic was used in the UK to do the same thing to the Catholic opposition in the 1600’s and continued throughout the 1900’s to now, unless of course, you are one of the wealthy elite. As an example, the UK, once observed free speech, that right has been severely eroded. Then too, exemplified in the 60’ and seventies in UK Northern Ireland where the government sanction assassination, warrantless kick-in searches, torture (even of children), incarceration without due process, domestic surveillance, and more...all normalized as was exhibited by a UK poster here who suggested it was all justified to surpress the Catholics and terrorists in NI which were responding to the erosion of civil rights. The UK’s policies ironically, were responsible for swelling the ranks of the opposition. Trump’s win, regardless of the opinion of him, I suggest are a reflection of the same type swelling and galvanizing of those seeing a similar trend.
    What the LW doesn’t seem to recognize, a large portion of Americans understand the value of the Constitution in making America become what it has and are loath to give up the rights it guarantees. It also is an anchor to those that will resist the US going the way of the UK without a fight.
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, you're just not very well informed about how these types of things work. Almost certainly it was "felony possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony". That's a charge many prosecutors will often times tack on just to throw another charge at someone when they committed a crime that involved a gun.

    So if you, for example, shot and killed someone, you could be charged with first degree murder and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony. Even though possession of that gun would have otherwise been legal.
    The laws are ridiculous and don't make sense.
    The prosecutor might also throw in unlawful discharge of a firearm for good measure, if they really don't like you, or their case is on shaky ground and they're trying to coerce you into a plea bargain, which is not uncommon.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Westland police say that a fight over a mutual female friend inside the home led to the shooting. Joey is now charged with several felonies, including assault with intent to murder.
    Although Joey is charged with several felonies, Wilson is only charged with carrying a concealed weapon."

    there are no bad cops and they never make mistakes, so this must of been a good cop doing a perfect job

    seriously though, I have no clue and need more information then the ops article
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We usually don't have all the information, and more than likely what will happen is Neslon will be sitting in jail for 9 to 14 months until it goes to trial, if it goes to trial.
    (many are coerced into plea bargains, so all the details may never come out)

    That is unless if some mistake was made and they can get it all sorted out and the prosecution decides to drop the charges.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    there has to be more to this story, at least one hopes so, otherwise the cops are very in the wrong, it doesn't sound logical cops would be this wrong... but with cops I never say never either, cause they are human too and some can be bad too
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are some unsubstantiated rumors that the cops on the case were drunk and they may have botched the report, confusing the names and who did what

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/drunk-detectives-lawless-wardens-mar-marine-gun-case/

    Sounds like the cop may have gotten pissed off and written an unfavorable report.

    But take a look at that prosecutor too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  20. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    There is indeed something missing from the presented article.
     
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's not what Joey Nelson's father, Steve Nelson, says:
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  22. Nonsensei436

    Nonsensei436 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If that’s all true then Joey is in an extremely good position and the Westland PD may be in for an internal investigation followed by several terminations.
     
  23. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The fracas was over a woman (yet again: they are not worth it, guys; and neither are they worth it, girls), and the one guy shot at the other guy running away.
     
  24. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That isn’t really more insight, just more of the same information from the original article. There’s still no clarification of what actually happened and it’s still entirely from one of the people involved (their family and lawyer). One thing I can’t understand is that there are three people who have been charged in this case yet none of the articles seem to even mention any attempt to get their sides of the story. It just seems like they have their story and they don’t want to hear anything that might complicate it (ironically what they so often accuse the police of).

    I’m not saying there can’t be anything untoward in the handling of the case, only that the assumption that must be the case and the blind acceptance of the statements from any one party involved is unjustifiable.

    Not at all because, rightly or not, Wilson hasn’t been charged with shooting anyone. Isn’t it at least possible that he didn’t?
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    another related thread:
    Manhattan DA prosecuted store employee for defending self, stopping thief


    Also some good news, Joey Nelson was found not guilty at trial.

    The link also has this to say:

    "Wayne County prosecutor Kym Worthy attempted to transform a Marine protecting his family into an attempted murderer! This is the same prosecutor who knowingly kept an innocent man in prison FOR YEARS as a display of prosecutorial power!"​

    NOT GUILTY Verdict For Marine Who Shot At Armed Invader Breaking Into His Home – The Coach's Team (wordpress.com)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022

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