More New Hoax Proof

Discussion in 'Moon Landing' started by Scott, Jan 21, 2016.

  1. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  2. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Another totally inept video with a whole list of ignorant observations:-

    1. His first point is that in the Apollo 11 DAC video "there is no evidence of lunar gravity". That is because this is a sequence of frames taken every 1 second and put together! Such ignorance.

    2. His second observation is that they are walking upright all the time. What complete bullcrap. We can see quite clearly that they are leaning forward almost the entire time. If we look at the actual video footage, and pictures, this is even more obvious. The elevation of the camera doesn't help.

    3. Idiotic observation number two, again looking at this series of spliced photographs is that there is no loss of balance etc. Well, maybe they spent hours and hours on harnesses and in 1/6th gravity flight airplanes, during the exhaustive training routine.

    We then have nothing but patronising crap "educating us" about center of gravity until 7.40. Followed by a claim that the weight of the PLSS was more than the published figures because of the weight of liquids and battery. That is incorrect. The total weight of all consumables is included in the final 120lbs figure. He arrives at a figure of 180lbs total for just the PLSS which is a complete fabrication. Any total would include the spacesuit (34kg) as well, which is NOT on his back and further adds to his total vertical centre of gravity.

    There is more patronising crap right up until this next observation below:-

    You were impressed by somebody's ignorance. The picture is a screenshot from an EVA taken from the LRV. Assumption is the mother of all f-ups. What we have here is the assumption that the LRV is on a flat surface. Many EVAs away from the landing site resulted in the LRV being parked on slopes amd at odd angles.

    [​IMG]

    The bottom line is that his body weight plus the space suit is offset by the PLSS on his back. The mass of the suit adds to his centre of gravity stability, so a lean forward is less pronounced than without the suit.


    We can add it to the long list of crap that you gullibly swallow without checking!

    http://debunking-a-moron.blogspot.co.uk/
     
  3. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  4. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Why didn't you do that before you regarded it as proof? My points are so obvious, it doesn't need an expert, it needs common sense that you don't have! Your opinion on anyone's credibility relies on test of your own making. Since you fail at every level on this test, you don't even have the credibility to rate others.

    Everyone who reads this including your new "buddy"| can see you are scared to answer my post because you know that once again you have been sucked gullibly into more hogwash!
     
  5. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    Hey Beta, do you think Scott and I are conspiring against you? - because if you do, then that means that you are one of those darn pesky CONSPIRACY THEORISTS!!! :)
     
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it's a hoax that some people think the moon-landing was a hoax
     
  7. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are just another in a long line of sad, ignorant, hoax believers. Experts in their field know the landings occured. It seems the only ones who question them are people who have no education relevant to space travel.
     
  8. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    So you think that only the NASA keepers of the sacred cosmic holy books are able to understand this? It has been my experience that the "common man" is more likely to have the rare quality of "common sense" than the educated idiots... :)

    I'm just a common man drive a common van
    My dog ain't got a pedigree
    If I have my say gonna stay that way
    cause high browed people lose their sanity
    And a common man is what I'll be


    Common Man:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83LivylyLMU

    And here is a simple "common sense" experiment that any "common man" can do:

    Here is what I did - I took a 30lb bag of Orijen dog food (for my non-pedigree dog) with the dimensions of:

    Orijen dog food 30lbs
    24"x 16"x 3.75" inches

    And I strapped it to my back - I then tried to stand upright - and I found that this 30lb bag only extending out 3.75" from my back (unlike the 12" of the PLSS) - made me very unstable.

    I weigh 200lbs and the bag weighs 30lbs so 30/200 = 15% of my body weight.

    An astronaut with a weight of 180lbs and a suit of 60lbs would weigh 240lbs - with the OPS/PLSS weighing ~ 160lbs so 160/240 = 67% of body weight.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the astronaut could not stand anywhere near vertical or he would topple over backwards!

    and a common man is what I'll be!
     
  9. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    My experience is that you are misguided and don't understand why.

    Incorrect.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo/Skylab_A7L#Specifications
    The eva suit weighed 76lbs. That is an average combined weight of 256lbs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_Life_Support_System#Apollo_PLSS
    The OPS weighed 41lbs and the PLSS weighed 84lbs. Combined 125lbs.

    Less than 50%. Now whilst the ratio and natural balance was the same on the Moon, the human ability to compensate with muscular strength is not. Show me where your "common sense" factored that in!

    Now, thank you for building your wonderful strawman albeit incorrect. Show where he does stand vertical for any extended period, factor in the rigidity of the combined suit and thermal garment, the ability of a human to take strain on muscles and the reduced gravity and load that produces on those muscles. Do you understand also that if you bend your knees you alter your center of gravity? Please don't screen print any video footage where you think he is vertical. That idiotic video in the OP has already done that. It used a sceenshot from Apollo 15 EVA 3:-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELorPwr6E68

    At 56 mins, and obviously not flat as you see when he walks off. If you tilt your screen 20-30 degree to the left it shows the angle of the rover.

    Incorrect again! The depth of the PLSS was 10" that included the lightweight cover and the fabric enclosure. The space suit also altered the depth of the astronaut to almost double.

    You said it.

    As I said before, this video is as bad as the useless observations about the flag. Common sense? MEH!
     
  10. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    I think there is some controversy over the exact figure - but we will use your 125lb figure. An easy experiment to do would be to find someone (that you would agree would be the correct weight) and strap a 125lb backpack to his back sticking out 12" - OK, we'll make it 10" to make you happy - and let's see if he can prance about like the Apollo astronauts. I bet he can't... :)

    Here is some "common sense" :)
    If 15% makes me unstable - wouldn't 50% make me fall over?

    For someone who gives the impression that they understand physics - you are completely wrong about the muscular strength comment. It does not matter if the astronauts are made of strong muscle or weak, of steel of wood, of plastic or styrofoam - the only thing that matters is if the "Center of Gravity" is over the "Base of Support". Of course, whatever type of structure we are talking about must have enought strength to hold itself up - but this has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We are talking about an astronaut or any structure being off balance and falling over...

    Here is some more "common sense" :)
    You don't have to stand off balance for an exended period - you only have to do it for a fraction of a second and over ya goes!

    Completely irrelevant! It does not matter how rigid a structure is for it to topple over - the ONLY thing that matters is if the "Center of Gravity" is over the "Base of Support".


    Wrong! See above comment.

    As for bending your knees - check out this video:

    Apollo Astronaut in Impossible Position:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CsQnCFJhXA

    Are you saying that we can't tell if a person with a backpack is standing straight or not? :)
     
  11. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Strawman. They aren't on the Moon!

    Both would over balance you. But please show me where an Apollo astronaut is in that position.

    At first I was really annoyed reading this but that's probably your intention. Nowhere did I deny any of that. My reference to muscular strength was when the balance point begins to go, rigidity and muscular strength can offset this by altering the physical balance point and pulling forward, Instability point. they also bend their knees a lot which further lowers their center of gravity.

    Never denied. Anyone would think you couldn't find any legitimate examples.

    Never denied. The rigidity and muscular strength allows any near vertical moments to be corrected easier. Do you get any more annoying than this? I hope not!

    It is correct in the context it was written!

    Wow. Another idiot makes an idiot video. Now I know categorically that you pay no attention to my videos. Quite clearly in the above EVA is the same footage. HE IS ON A SLOPE! The LRV is not level, neither is the camera.

    Looks like it doesn't it!
     
  12. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    Nope, they are not on the moon - And the amazing thing about this is: It does not matter if they are on the moon or on the earth! - the only thing that matters is the physical position that they are in!

    Using your own figure of the backpack being 50% of (body + suit) weight - are you saying that a 200lb person like me could easily walk around with a 100lb backpack? if I tried to stand anywhere near upright I would flip right over backwards. It is that darn "common sense" thing again! :)

    Common sense again: The astronauts are TOP HEAVY!!!

    top-heav·y
    adj. top-heav·i·er, top-heav·i·est
    1. Likely to topple because of an uneven distribution of weight, with the majority being at the top.

    More words related to top-heavy:
    top-heavy adj. * unstable * bulky * cumbersome * imbalanced * lopsided * overloaded * overweight * tottering * unbalanced * uneven

    All of these synonyms are applicable to the Apollo astronauts - and their bag full of rocks wouldn't help either! The astronauts on the moon would be slipping, sliding and falling all over the place!
     
  13. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    So much arm waving and hot air, and yet we have still to see some examples of where their COG is compromised!

    Pathetic. You would find it easy on the Moon as the weight would not be challenging.

    You don't have any common sense, you just have irritating observations that are non applicable to what is observed. I would suggest that you don't stand upright.

    BULLCRAP!!!

    Bullcrap. You have no idea what you are talking about. Show some examples and explain how friction with the surface is an issue and where they are in an off balance position. That useless video was on a slope, didn't you know?
     
  14. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    As the author of the video has stated: There are numerous examples in the Apollo record - anyone can see them!

    My statement was not about the actual weight of the backpack - it is about the instability caused by the uneven distribution of the weight. The author of the video clearly states that "if you cant stand upright on the earth with a heavy backpack, then you cant stand upright on the moon either" Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

    That is right! You can't stand upright!

    It appears that you disagree with the statement that the astronauts are top heavy. If we strap something on your back that weighs 50% of you weight - wouldn't that make you top heavy?

    As the author of the video has stated: There are numerous examples in the Apollo record - anyone can see them!

    Friction on the moon is only 1/6 that of the earth. Do you agree or disagree?
     
  15. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    The author is full of crap. You were asked for examples, you came up with one laughably on a slope. Then you went quiet. We get that a lot with your kind.

    The weight is not unevenly distributed. The idiot in that video didn't even know consumables were part of the quoted figurtes and reside in areas that make the apparatus better balanced.

    A strawman statement since his useless observations on Apollo 11 show no such example. The question has already been answered previously and in the quotes you used from me!

    Maybe it's hard for you to get to the point with examples that aren't on slopes, it certainly looks that way. When I asked if you could get more irritating it was kinda rhetorical, but you didn't need to do just that.

    It appears that I disagree with the statement that the astronauts avoided standing straight up, not the moronically obvious premise that they would topple over if they did!

    Didn't you say that above?

    The author is full of crap. You were asked for examples, you came up with one laughably on a slope. Then you went quiet. We get that a lot with your kind.

    Friction between the surface and anything in contact that is correct. Otherwise no, since horizontally gravity will not be a factor.
    I can hardly wait for you to make a point that doesn't make me shake my head in derision.
     
  16. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    I don't think that I am quiet - I just don't monitor this forum 24/7 like you seem to do.

    Don't you like my kind? Maybe what we have here is a failure to communicate...

    Cool Hand Luke (1967)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=452XjnaHr1A

    The author of the video states that walking on the moon is like walking on wet ice. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?
     
  17. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant comment

    Troll comment, irrelevant.

    Idiotic comment and also irrelevant. No I do not agree with that statement. Now what, a subject change? I'm waiting for your upright astronaut examples. You've blown out some hot air and had enough time.
     
  18. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    Physics of the Moon Walk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AerNjmLqVe0

    If you want some examples just watch any Apollo video and you will find plenty of instances where the astronauts are in upright positions. Any images that I point out I am sure will not meet your standards of levelness - but you have made an error in your reasoning, however, because standing on a slope does not change the physics of the astronaut position. You would still need to align yourself parallel with the force of gravity and keep your COG over your BOS - Whether one stands on a level or unlevel surface, you would still need to keep the backpack in the same position regardless.

    You cannot have it both ways. You agreed that the friction on the moon is only 1/6 that of the earth. If the friction is 1/6 earth then that means that the moon is as slippery as wet ice! That statement is just another way of saying that the friction on the moon is the same friction as wet ice here on the earth. The two statements are equivalent statements! You cannot say one is true without the other being also true! So, once again your reasoning is in error...
     
  19. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    I have watched almost the entire Apollo record and there are no instances at all where an astronaut stands up perfectly vertical on a flat surface. What your untrained and biased mind says is flat is almost certainly going to be anything but. Compensating for the balance point is what we see all the time, your comment is nonsense.

    Another really stupid statement. Walking on ice is nothing whatsoever like walking on a solid surface with reduced gravity. My head cannot fathom how you can be so dumb as to think they are the same thing!
     
  20. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    The laws of physics say they are the same thing... :roll:
     
  21. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Ludicrous statement - you are just trolling. Find me some examples. Your look at the video and "find them yourself" crap is not working for me!
     
  22. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    I will explain this as simple as I can:

    IF A = B THEN B = A

    IF A THEN B

    IF B THEN A

    IF NOT A THEN NOT B

    IF NOT B THEN NOT A

    :roll:
     
  23. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Just what was needed a new forum troll to backup a serial forum spammer.

    I shall make this very simple.

    There are no examples of an astronaut standing vertically upright. The center of gravity with the space suit and the PLSS means a gentle bend will offset the slight imbalance. The PLSS itself is heavier at its base further aiding in this process.

    Now, it has been claimed that there are numerous examples of this upright stance. The idiotic OP video suggests this occurs all the time during Apollo 11 a film sequence shot from above which ignores the obvious and visible terrain variances clearly visible on the fixed camera footage.

    I have requested examples, as in specific screen shots or time stamps. Only one was given, which turned out to be on a slope!

    Now it is being claimed that walking on the Moon is like walking on ice. To back this up the claimant is using his own claim! It is a ridiculous claim since even 1/6th gravity has grip with the surface. I would suggest that a power slide on ice would not be able to be performed on the Moon or in a simulated rig.

    I cannot get through to somebody like this. They entered the forum with what appeared to be some degree of intelligence, but this has now descended in rapid fashion, to the usual clueless trolling we associate with the dunces on Youtube.
     
  24. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    You never did directly answer my question. So, once again, is the author of the video correct with the above statement?
     
  25. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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