Mother of Miscarried Child: ‘He Is Very Obviously Human, Not a Cluster of Cells’

You may as well face a choice I made as a medic many years ago, two patients in a motor vehicle accident both not breathing and I can only save one, one is 10 years old, the other is 60 + years old.

Your question has an obvious answer, I am one person and could not possibly save 1,000 embryos, viable or not,
I could and would save the infant first.

An infant has no chance of surviving a fire, fertilized eggs, are contained in chambers that could survive a fire.

I do not know of any fertility clinic that stores embryos in any case.
An egg is fertilized, an embryo, once was a fertilized egg that developed into an embryo.

The facility that processes and stores embryos, is far more advanced, than a mere fertility clinic.

 

I believe that is when the creation process of life goes into overdrive, but it's not until consciousness enters the vessel that it becomes alive
just like a person can die before their body does, so can the body be alive with the person

so I guess were talking abut two different things, the body and the mind

 

Ever wonder how many of the women posting in this thread are triggered because they feel guilty?

 

and I forgot to add, some believe this kinda nonsense

"Virginia lawmaker: Children with disabilities are God’s punishment to women who previously had abortions."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/22/disabled-abortion/

 

Ever wonder when an Anti-Choicer will say something relevant or meaningful?


And "triggered" the new little ignorant's catch word we'll have to hear til our ears melt because people can't form a sentence without it.

No, studies show most women feel relief after having an abortion.

Now , I doubt you can explain why a woman who felt guilty about her abortion would post in here ?

Or why a woman would feel guilty ?

 

One becomes a person with rights at birth. Before it's born the fetus can't have more rights than the woman it's in.

YES, abortions are done for convenience...the convenience of not dying, the convenience of not having your body damage by pregnancy, the convenience of not suffering financial//career/job/educational loss....the convenience of not having a kid that's unwanted or you can't afford.

OF COURSE abortion is for convenience!!!!!!!


Do YOU do everything in your life as inconveniently as possible? WHY?


YES! Being selfish is what people DO. It's the human thing...we would not have survived on earth if NO one had ever selfishly thought of their own survival..

Being selfish is doing what you want to do...like HAVE kids..., block others from entering your country, giving tax breaks to the wealthy....EVERYONE is selfish...

 

Gee, I'm not hearing anything from you.....got a case of the "crickets" ?

 

huh, I didn't know men could have an abortion. Sorry for my ignorance. Do you have a link to a medical study?

Edit: Besides, you should be proud. You beat "the man".

 

Complete dodge. Try again. Completely generic scenario, then - given the choice of saving 1,000 embryos or 1 single infant (no method of destruction given, no choice but the value you place on the 'lives' in question) which would you save and why?

 

I'm sure you got notice of post 56 .....can't address it??? You sure didn't address anything here, it's gobbledgoop......

 

gook not goop That was bugging me. Maybe I did and maybe I didn't. Do you think I need to care about what you post? Why? Nothing else to do, but complain?

 

Oh, I missed it. You will feel important. Did you change it or did I just miss it? I truly don't remember seeing it, though most rants like this don't turn me on the way they might others. I'll try a little. Not much, though. I should get a trophy for going back and doing this for you at my own expense. I doubt it will be worth it.

No.

Ha! I didn't even know there was a catch word! Cool!

That's odd. They don't care at all, huh? Why is this bold font? I must have gotten caught up in some crazy progressive ranting liberal's whirlpool sucking me down to their level. Sucks, literally, to be me.

Wait....I'm confused. You just said no studies show women feel relief, so why would you need to ask me to explain this? Don't you understand your own post? Maybe you just don't believe it? I don't know, but I can't read my own mind, let alone yours. sheesh.......give me a break.....

Well, the studies I've done tell me most women like to blame men. I'd guess that's why they would not feel guilty. You study says they don't feel guilty, so this isn't relevant.

How's dat?

Murder is illegal.........just remember that.

 

Oh, so you don't have anything to say...(shrug)

BTW, this is the abortion forum....murder has nothing to do with abortion.....a legal medical procedure can't be murder.

 

I know it's the abortion forum. <Mod Edit- Rule 2>

The murder thing is subjective, but it wasn't a comment on abortion. It was a comment on how pissed you might be, and a reminder that you can put down the weapons, metaphoric or otherwise.

What bothers me is this. You are angry because some folks think it's murder. I don't understand how a free thinker and progressive can justify not allowing others to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions and boundaries.

Personally, if you want to have an abortion, that's up to you. All I ask is that you don't make me pay for it, because my religious beliefs say it's murder. I don't hold it against you, but I would not date or marry anyone who has had one. Maybe, but it would have to be a special circumstance and I would rather sacrifice the mother than child.

I haven't done anything to stop you from getting an abortion, or anyone for that matter. It's really a personal decision. It's really up to you. It's your body, and your choice.

I do have opinions. They may or may not line up with any stereotypes. I don't really know.

Is that the ammunition you hoped to received?

 

Now, if you have the patience and objective reasoning I hope, you can discern where I am joking and where I am serious in my response below. All of this, after you have read my last response.

I even told you at the beginning of this response I didn't take it all that seriously and you still responded. What you think is important isn't what I do, nor what everyone else thinks is important. What you think is relevant, may or may not be. We are all different. We are unique. I can't live your life and you can't live mine. All we can do is try to get along and help each other understand.

<Mod Edit- Rule 2>

 

............That sure looks like a baby to me, in that opening post. It really bothered me, whether that child can feel anything or not.

Scientific terms do not do that little attempt at life justice.

 

In post 66 you altered my post with your words....please do not do that again.

 

And you are quite wrong. I am not angry that some people stupidly think it's murder. I will, however, argue against that stupidity.

Arguing against something does not mean one is angry. Are YOU always angry when you disagree?

WHO is ""not allowing others to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions and boundaries"" besides Anti-Choicers who want to pass laws restricting women's rights, not allowing women to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions and boundaries ?

Of course it is, don't need your permission.

Nobody has.

Fine, but laws aren't, and should not be , based on religious beliefs.

No one cares if you hold it against them.......hopefully no one will hold it against you when you do something they consider wrong.

So you are only Pro-Life for fetuses and women can just die....

Ya, you have plenty of "stereotyping" going on...

 

I don't know what you are talking about. Honestly. If I quoted you and then gave my opinion of what you said, even using a modified version, as long as your original quote is there, I don't see the issue. I may have done that.

 

You are making up definitions that have no bearing on cognition or the term "significant brain function".

If a human lacks significant brain function the patient is deemed "clinically dead" ... they pull the plug and the patient begins his/her dirt nap.

You need to start using technically correct terms "you cannot define life". We are not talking about "life". We are talking about what constitutes a living human.

Without significant brain function a human is classified as clinically dead.

While the early brain has formed ... the wiring is not complete until after 20 weeks. Once this wiring is completed the brain lights up like an xmas tree. That is when "significant brain function" exists according to medical science and science in general.

We can get into journal articles if you like. It is not like this topic has not been well studied. This is the reason why many states have an abortion cut off at various times past 20 weeks.

 

You did not make it clear whose words were whose....believe me, I don't want "credit" for what you post.

 

<Rule 8>

I'm sorry they bother you so much. We all need to look at ourselves in the mirror at times. Sometimes we don't like what we see. We can work to change what we believe about ourselves.

I think part of the issue is that I won't directly debate what you have to say. I won't because I'm not trying to change your mind about abortion, nor am I attempting to change anyone's mind.

Abortion is your right. It's not an obligation.

I truly don't care if you have one or not. I simply believe I have a right to refuse to contribute any money I make to something that is against my personal and religious beliefs. Any laws which inhibit that right of mine are against the Declaration of Independence example of inalienable rights, which are a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Your ability to have an abortion legally and safely, is your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I have no desire to take away your rights. It is not my right to pay for them, when they go against my religious beliefs. It is force which causes me to lose rights, which this country was founded on.

I'm happy that you get what you want, but it was never the intention of the founding fathers to take away anyone's rights. Otherwise, they would not have tried to abolish slavery when forming the new laws of the burgeoning nation.

They had to let it go, or those who were an would fight for this new idea of freedom, would have died for nothing. We'd still be under British rule and taxation without representation, which is illegal and why we fought them, is exactly what I am referring to here.


I do not understand why those things are controversial enough to have deleted, unless you believe it is my responsibility to pay for whatever you do that has consequences in your life. Since you are not my daughter, I don't believe I am obligated, but I do believe I have a directive to help those in need, if possible, according to the personal and religious beliefs I hold valuable.

That's completely different from what you believe I am saying and makes your comments to me inflammatory and troll bait.

Yet, I have not turned you or anyone else in for any posts to me. If someone believes I have, I apologize. I've not clicked on a repost button, but could have accidentally. This computer is small and my hands hit the mouse pad and mess things up, sometimes.

On the religious side of this, I have a right to pursue the religion of my choice, as long as it isn't breaking any laws of taxation, or harming another citizen. If my religion says I will go to hell for eternal punishment, if I pay or help pay for your abortion, which in religion, is like holding the gun while a robber is getting the teller to fill up his bag with cash, I'm going to do my best to ask the Lord to forgive me because I am forced to do so.

I am also taught to learn my lesson and help others without participating in their sins. Those things which my religion deems are sins, is what I mean. I know many will take offense to that, but I'm sorry, rules are rules, the same as here on the forum. You may not question the mods decisions, if you don't want banished from the kingdom, or to put it differently, if you want your eternal reward.

I hope that is not too offensive for this forum on abortion. I am not lecturing you on why you or anyone else is evil or good.

You see, my religion also says I should not judge anyone. What that means is I should not say you will go to heaven or hell, your faith is not strong, or you are not worthy of heaven.

Why does it say that? Because I have no authority to do that. I will be sinning. So, if you want to have an abortion, it is your right. What you believe about that for yourself is fine with me. I don't think you should be treated differently by the public for your decisions.

I do have a right to choose as well, according to the Constitiution. So, I choose not to participate, on the grounds that I believe I am enabling you to do something that is agaisn't my personal and religious beliefs. These things will condemn me to eternal punishment. I don't want to be eternally punished. I want to do my best to follow and ask forgiveness for where I failed.

So, it's really tough to understand my positions, and most don't. Even those who are devoutly Christian take offense to my beliefs. I understand, and believe me, the Lord said folks would hate me. That makes me feel good.

Again, this is very difficult to understand. It's not intuitive. Much is counter-intuitive.

In fact, I have no responsibility to post that, because someone getting angry with me about it has more to do with them, than what is inside me. Do you see how this relates to what I posted before? I hope so.

 

In what part? Did I include an unedited original post of yours with my "mistake" in interpretation or grammar outside of your quote or are you accusing me of actually changing your posting? If so, was it possible to click on something that would take a reader back to the original, unedited and unaltered post of yours?

 

<Mod Edit>
I'm sorry you feel so very strongly about defending yourself. I never meant to attack anyone. I meant to offer my opinions, only and then leave the thread. <Off-topic>

Please let others have their opinions. They aren't wrong. We all have one. Most only say what is right for them, just like those on the side of legal abortion.

Guess what? I'm on the side of safe and legal abortion. My beliefs say that you have a choice as much as I do. If I take that away, I control you. I am then responsible for your sins. I ask the Lord for forgiveness where I have sinned and His hand in what I have posted that is His will. I will pray for you. Take care.