MS workers protest bid to build Pentagon's $10bn AI warfare system

Correct, red herrings don't require a response. I'm glad to see you got it.

But you seem to care enough to invent red herrings that have nothing to do with me and are not part of the article.

 

Why are you so stuck on bad fish? Seems unnatural even. MS/Google workers, unite, protest their organization's complicity in DOD AI usage, demand the immediate stoppage of said complicity. All the while, not understanding that the AI they are developing has its very roots in the DARPA led research that is now being shared with both MSFT/Google. Too rich. So, stop sharing the intellectual property with MSFT/Google. All good.

 

I am not OK with anything about 911. So, your solution is to shoot down an airliner full of passengers in a populated area.

I claim no great knowledge. However, twenty years in the Air Force does have some value in evaluating a situation like this. I know that in spite of how much we would like to be able to do something, sometimes it is not possible. There was nothing in that intelligence which the US could have acted on to stop what happened. . I have asked you numerous times to suggest something. But you have failed to do so.

We could have grounded all the airliners. However, that is where the terrorists have the advantage. He just waits. We will eventually start flying again and then he strikes. Without knowing the specifics of what was intended, we were helpless.

There is a possibility that they have something else in mind at this very minute with even more casualties. Most likely, the military will not be able to do anything about that either. And given our Constitution, we are very limited in what we can do about it. That is one of the penalties of the amount of freedom we possess and so many have died for.

 

Well at least that, neither am I. I'm also not ok with anything prior to or post 9/11 with regard to the US government.

Jeeez, where did I post a solution other than that the US military should have done their job? Why do you insist on posting things I never posted?

I can see that.

You're absolutely correct, when they were intent on doing nothing and even made sure the event was a spectacular success, they couldn't have done any more to make sure and it is not possible to prevent or stop it under those conditions.

Why do you insist on posting a fallacy despite you well know I did suggest they do their job numerous times?

You keep saying "we" as if "we" were involved in anything about 9/11. YOU and I were helpless, they (as in the US government and its crackerjack military/intelligence apparatus) were not, despite your apologist mentality and the propaganda you were fed. You even readily dismiss their gross incompetence claims.

Utter nonsense. The Constitution mandates that the US government should do everything within reason to defend all individual rights. That is the primary purpose for their existence (see our founding document), otherwise they serve no purpose and must be replaced. That means among other things, to defend the US against all enemies.

 

Doing their job is not an adequate response. You apparently believe they are supposed to perform the impossibility because that is their job.

It was a puzzling statement, but it appeared that you were OK with shooting down an unarmed airliner.

I never felt hopeless. I believe that I am primarily in control of my own destiny. Some things are beyond my control and those who are supposed to protect me, but that is life. No guarantees.

The Constitution has a bill of rights which limits the actions of the government. Notice the screams of outrage when they listen to a phone call they should not have. But you are right, the government could do a better job of defending us, if it ween't for that pesky Constitution.

 

For you. It seems not doing their job is an adequate response to you.

Such incredible nonsense. Defending the US is an impossibility and they are receiving over $1/2 trillion each and every year to perform the impossible because that's their job. This is the garbage you're posting. If you can't post anything with minimal intelligence I have nothing further to discuss with you.

I posted such thing. Defense of the US consists of doing what's reasonable and weighing the best options to try to minimize casualties. It also consists of acting appropriately and preemptively in accordance with credible intelligence considered a threat.

Correct, there are no guarantees even when Americans fund the military industrial complex to the tune of $1/2 trillion each year, there is no guarantee that they will do their job.

Correct, their actions must be consistent with protecting/defending the individual rights of The People which is their primary mandate.

That's because it is a clear violation of the individual rights of The People and should be prosecuted accordingly.

They should do the job they are being mandated and paid to do, according to the Constitution. And that is what's right, not your silly red herrings or your apologist position.

 

All beside the point. The central question is why as a species we are designing the very means of our own extinction?

 

There was no job for them to do.

No matter how many gazillions they received, they still couldn't do anything about it.

Agreed.

The bill of rights stand alone.

You can't have it both ways.

They are doing their job according to the law which is based on the constitution.

 

Thanks for confirming you believe they were impotent and you're ok with that.

Then there was never any reason for them to exist in the first place since they serve no purpose according to you, much less to fund them to the tune of $1/2 trillion each year.

Then quit posting what you know are lies.

Whether it does or doesn't has nothing to do with what I posted.

Your false rationale has nothing to do with what I posted either.

Endangering the lives of Americans despite the warnings then doing nothing was never part of their job description no matter how much you want it to be true and are happy with it.

 

Because recklessness is part of the inherent nature of our species. There are so many ways human beings are attempting to cause our own extinction, AI is merely one possibility. The destruction of our ecology is a more immediate threat so is potential nuclear annihilation.

 

I am going to show what the military could have done and why they did not.
1. Identify and kill terrorists before they enter our country. Clinton could have done this, but did not. Probably not realistic anyway.
2. Guard the borders and ports of entry for possible terrorists. Against the law.
3. Monitor all phone calls in the US to identify potential terrorists. Against the law.
4. Arrest potential terrorists in the US. Against the law.
5. Prevent potential terrorists from boarding airplanes. Against the law.
6. Ride as air marshals in the aircraft. Against the law.
7. Shoot down airliners which pose a threat. Not sure about your position on this. It is a bad idea though.

Now tell me what I missed and tell me where I am wrong. Surely with all that you could come up with something.

 

If human beings were attempting to cause our own extinction it would be easy to identify any conscious attempts to do so and possibly nip them in the bud. On the other hand I suggest being mightily impressed with our technological genius, whenever we discover a new trick, we are so impressed with that genius we don’t even begin to speculate about possible negative consequences. It’s all just ‘Gosh, gee wiz and won’t the shareholders be impressed'

 

I'm not interested in your apologist hypotheses (you are unqualified) or your demands that I come up with plans for the US military (this is ridiculously unrealistic as I am also unqualified). The fact is the US military conducted war games ON 9/11 simulating hijackings (Vigilant Guardian and Vigilant Warrior), this is FACT not theory or the ultimate "insult" conspiracy theory. They also conducted war games prior to 9/11 simulating attacks on buildings using aircraft. The ONLY possible reason to do that is to prepare for such a situation. Therefore plans by the military were in place to defend against such scenarios. That you believe they were so impotent that they could do nothing other than stand by and watch it happen has NO basis in reality.

 

That's not necessarily true.

That's not necessarily true either. While trying to impress shareholders may be an incentive, not everyone who participates in a new discovery is likely to be so blinded by such an achievement that they fail to see the potential negative consequences.

 

Twenty years in the Air Force plus working with the Army and the Navy certainly makes me more qualified than you to judge what the military can and cannot do. I have participated in numerous exercises, large and small. Just because something has been exercised or planned, does not mean it can be accomplished given the real situation. The most they can do is to try to force the aircraft to head off in another direction. They usually do that by flying a formation with the aircraft and try to force them to fly in another direction. With passengers on board the civilian aircraft they are extremely limited in what they can do. If it was an empty airliner, they might be successful. With a load of passengers on board, there is nothing than can do.

I have listed every possible task i can think of that the military could have done from the terrorist planning stage through execution. The tasks are illegal or impractical or both. Your inability to accept that only shows your complete ignorance and stubbornness on the issue.

 

Twenty plus years of military service. What are you qualified for?

 

40+ years as a computer software consultant as a lead designer/analyst/programmer of large scale commercial applications for domestic and international corporations. I'm also the author of the very first networked PC software system designed for corporate legal departments.

With all that, I have the exact same qualifications you have, I'm qualified to post fact, opinion and whatever else I want to post within the rules of this forum. Unlike you who pretends and believes you are qualified to suggest military defenses and your vision of what you believe are the limitations of the US military/intelligence apparatus, I can tell you I'm not qualified to design, analyze or program sophisticated AI systems, the subject of this thread. The closest I have ever come to that is to design and write a program about 3 decades ago whose objective was to learn how to solve a specific puzzle. The problem was that the computing power I had at my disposal back then (IBM 370 mainframe) was so limited that the program would have had to run continuously for years to get to the point of solving the puzzle and I didn't have the time to spend to modify it to create algorithms that would have cut corners.

 

I have twenty plus years in the military plus a career in the aerospace industry. Now, if you question my military background, we could probably arrange a little friendly bet of a few thousand dollars.

You experience provides absolutely no background in the military.

Have you found anyone knowledgeable about the military who believes the military could have stopped 911? Take your time. I will be travelling the next couple of days.

 

Was there something you didn't understand about I'm done with this line of discussion in this thread? Go back and re-read my prior posts on this subject or take the discussion to the section this forum decided it belongs in.

 

I know you are the one that brought up the military and 911. So you are the one who should have put the this discussion where it belongs. I also know that you just keep on posting.

How about that bet?

 

Yes within the context of this thread. Like all discussions, they tend to morph out of context. However 9/11 discussions belong in a different section of the forum. Feel free to start a thread in the section devoted to 9/11 if you want to continue a discussion on whether you believe the US government/military could have stopped 9/11 from occurring or not.

That's because I'm the one who started this thread. So I will post in this thread as appropriate to the topic.

First, it's off topic and second I'm not interested in verifying or challenging your background claim. It has nothing to do with anything.

 

You insulted my military service. I initially thought about reporting you, but instead just decided to all your bluff.

 

I’m a pacifist so IMO the military serves only one purpose, to murder people. Yes it also serves as a deterrent ... to the intent of other militaries to murder people. If every government disbanded their military, there would be no such thing as war and genocide for $profit.

As already stated and what prompted the deviation of this topic is that the US military served no purpose on 9/11. And worse, that 9/11 was and is being used as pretext to commit genocide for $profit. Those who take part are complicit under the Nuremberg Principles, among other international treaties, and the Constitution. If that “insults” YOUR personal military service to YOU then so be it, it doesn't change the historical FACT.

Go for it hero, it’s been done before. I try to stay within the rules of this forum whenever possible but on occasion I stray without necessarily intending to violate the rules. When it comes to genocide and other human rights atrocities I will never be muzzled.

Whatever that means.

 

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