MSNBC Says AR-15 as a "Military" Rifle. Whats a Mini-14?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by upside222, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Which amounts to very little in terms of a practical difference.

    Is the M16 a minigun?
     
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  2. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post. Not only because I agree but well written and put together logically.

    Glad to see reasonable discussion here today. I normally stay from the gun control discussions because we usually just get the real gun confiscators and the EINSTEIN who will say "well you kill a bunch of people by driving a car into them. So lets ban cars".

    This is like trying to stop teens from making out and having sex. What are you going to do place chastity belts on them? Wire there lips shut and break their fingers?
     
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  3. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Law enforcement for me is at least 20min away. I've had to call 911 twice and it took them that long each time.

    And you didn't answer how you would protect from looters if the police or Natl Guard weren't available.

    It's quite obvious you can't relate. That doesn't mean that such situations don't happen else where. You've obviously never lived in rural America.
     
  4. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I tend to contribute pretty heavily to the gun debate mainly in an effort to lead to a better understanding in others about the issues we face today. Unfortunately I often find myself unintentionally irritating folks or being accused of simply trolling when I discuss this topic because I tend to purposefully ask folks for suggestions on gun legislation and then explain why such a legislation would fail. That simply leads to folks believing I am only interested in shooting down their arguments which is simply not true, I simply wish to explain how I believe such legislation would fail and explain the reasons why and hopefully convince others that in the grand scheme of things there really isn't much we can do about this anymore.

    I like to use this scenario when folks discuss banning firearms because it basically sums up the reasoning as to why it would never work:

    *knock on the door*
    Police: "Mr. Nightmare, semi-auto rifles are now illegal to possess and must be turned into the local authorities, are you currently in possession of any semi-auto rifles in your home, property, vehicle, or place of business?"
    Nightmare: "No"
    Police: "May we enter your home to verify your previous statement?"
    Nightmare: "No"
    Police: "Have a good day"

    *goes back to cleaning my unregistered AK-47 on my coffee table*

    It's a very simple little scenario but it explains so much. That literally is why such a thing would never work. There is simply nothing anybody could do about that. Sure we can make it illegal to own them from here on out but such a law can't STOP me from owning one that I already have nor can it MAKE ME give it to local authorities.

    Murder is already illegal and carries the stiffest penalties in our judicial system yet simply making murder illegal cannot physically STOP somebody from killing somebody else.

    Drunk driving is illegal and carries hefty penalties and possible incarceration yet there is literally no legislation available that can physically STOP ME from drinking a bottle of whiskey tonight and hopping in my truck and driving around town. Yes we have laws to punish me if I get caught doing that but it is literally impossible to STOP ME from doing that.

    Until the day we develop some sort of "Minority Report" style psychic ability to see into the future and stop folks from committing crimes before they occur then there is literally no legislation we can pass to STOP folks from doing something. Yes we can pass laws implementing very harsh penalties in an effort to deter folks from doing things but that's literally all we can do.

    Murder being illegal and carrying very stiff penalties DOES deter SOME folks from murder. Throwing morality out of the window I am pretty sure than if killing somebody wasn't against the law then yes more people would be getting murdered every day. Not sure how much it would increase but yes it would. A lot of folks say that we don't need laws to tell folks what is right or wrong. Yeah well whatever, if murder were made legal tomorrow I guarantee the homicide rate would also increase. So yes, laws DO work to deter people.

    However....IF somebody is hell bent on murdering somebody else then the law is meaningless. Life incarceration without the possibility of parole and even the death penalty are still not enough to prevent some folks from killing other folks. We are one of the few nations on earth who will literally kill you in some states if you kill somebody else yet that still doesn't stop folks from killing others.

    Point is like you said. All of the laws in the world can't stop somebody from doing something if they really want to. Like you said we can give teens classes on sex education, show them graphic pictures of STD's, repeatedly tell them not to have sex, etc. If teens want to have sex then they are going to have sex, period. Only thing that would work is like you implied, lock them in a cage and sew their mouths shut. That is an illogical solution obviously.

    That is why society has graduated from trying to prevent teens from having sex to educating them on it and issuing out condoms to them in high school. We finally figured out that there is nothing we can really say or do to stop them from doing it so we might as well just educate them on it and help them be safe about it. Telling them not to do it doesn't work. Society as a whole "accepted" that there was really nothing we could do to prevent teens from engaging in sexual activity so we gave in and just started helping them do it more safely.

    In a nation with 350+ million people and as many guns if not more, this sort of thing is going to happen sometimes. It just is. There is no real way to prevent it aside from figuring out a way to get rid of all of these guns. Which in itself is an illogical solution but it is physically impossible to do so. I hate to sound cold hearted and emotionless but that's not my intent.

    I simply look at raw facts and understand statistics.
    In a nation with 250 million + automobiles driving around people ARE GOING TO crash and die.
    In a nation with access to oceans on 3 sides people ARE GOING TO drown
    In a nation with 350 million people and 350 million guns people ARE GOING TO get shot and killed

    These things are going to happen sometimes. It sucks, it really does, but you can't do anything about it.
     
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  5. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where I live cows outnumber humans 2 to 1.
     
  6. FrankCapua

    FrankCapua Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think any here who call the AR 15 a military weapon have answered the question of whether they consider the mini-14 with a wood stock a military weapon.

    Answer it folks.
     
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  7. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Last I checked twice as many bullets is the potential for twice as many casualties.
     
  8. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Are you suggesting calling the cops when the looters come to your house after a natural disaster? :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  9. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the looters will be busy trying to keep their own homes from being looted. :roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  10. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually the U.S. Army study during the late 1950's was that a large volume of fire into the "beaten zone" will increase by 50% of a hit opposed to the old infantry tactics using a battle rifle ( M-1 Garand, M-14, etc) of a rifleman taking deliberate aim using his rifle sights with a small rear sight aperture. One shot-one kill.

    The tactics used with an assault rifle are very effective but you require 3 X more ammunition which means there has to be a logistical support all ready in place to resupply the rifleman on the battlefield with more ammunition.
     
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  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    But we are comparing Rapid fire at ranges above one hundred yards isn't generally aimed fire the picture looks like a 25 yard range. It also helps that you can carry 4 times the ammo, Typical nato 5.56 weighs significantly less than a 30-06. or 7.62 and takes up far less space.

    By the way wounded people are far more problematic to deal with than dead ones. A badly wounded guy takes two or three people out of the combat line dead men only one.
     
  12. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    Right, because that's what happens. :roll:
     
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  13. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's an old myth.

    Infantrymen don't stop fighting to provide aid to a wounded soldier or to carry a wounded soldier to an aid station.

    American infantry platoons have a combat medic or a Marine rifle platoon has a combat Navy corpsman assigned to a rifle platoon.

    FYI:
    (President Obama called Navy corpsmen "navy corpse man." :roflol: )

    Before Vietnam and the helicopter, there were non grunt soldiers or Marines assigned as stretcher carriers who carried the wounded back to an aid station. When you see a Marine Corps band in a parade, those Marines become stretcher bearers on the battlefield.

    One of the biggest advents on the battlefield has to be the helicopter, the medivac (DUSTOFF) -> http://www.chuckandlorene.com/
     
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  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    How do you propose to keep criminals from obtaining these "military weapons"?
     
  15. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    The Mini-14 uses the same ammo as the M16, which is exactly my point. You bemoan that the AR15 uses the same ammo yet the fact that the Mini-14 uses it too simply doesn't matter to you.

    Why is that?
     
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  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    l have not bemoaned anything. I was responding to someone who tried to claim that an AR15 was not a military weapon. I think it can be. You do not need to have complete fully automatic to be military but Inwouod recommend that option.
     
  17. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    The wood stock has nothing to do with it. Nothing the AK 47 and the AK74 have wooden stocks is certain versions that does not mean schist in function.
     
  18. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    What definition of "military weapon" are you referring to?
     
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  19. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Oh give us a break.. you still tapping about that navy corpesman mustake. Trump pissed and crapped on an American war hero and Trump pissed on the graves of men who were awarded ge Purple Heart and youbare moaning about a mistake between corpsman and corpesman! You need to seriously get a grip on reality.
     
  20. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    A rate of fire that is twice as high, also means potentially running out of ammunition twice as fast, necessitating far more stopping and reloading.

    The above only applies when dealing with enemy combatants that belief lives hold actual value. Otherwise a fallen comrade will simply be left to lay where they have fallen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
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  21. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the better articles on the Mini-14.

    The Mini-14, Mini Thirty, and Mini-6.8 are small, lightweight semi-automatic carbines manufactured by the U.S. firearms company Sturm, Ruger. The Mini-14 non-target versions can fire both the .223 Remington cartridge and the similar military 5.56×45mm cartridge. The target model Mini-14 rifles are chambered only for the .223 Remington cartridge. The Mini Thirty uses the 7.62×39mm and the Mini-6.8 fires 6.8mm Remington SPC.

    Ruger offered a selective fire variant of the Mini-14, the AC-556, to police and military customers. AC-556 models have a slightly longer receiver (shared with early production "series 180" models) to allow for full automatic operation. These models are available with features such as folding paratrooper stocks, short barrels, flash suppressors and bayonet lugs. The Mini-14GB model is a semi-automatic variant for police and military use with the additional factory options of a folding paratrooper stock, flash suppressor and a bayonet lug...
     
  22. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    When I was in we had a Battle Buddy system where guys were paired up by blood type, you or your battle buddy get hit, you both go to the medic in case blood is needed.
     
  23. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Then will you go on record stating that the Mini-14 is also a military rifle?
     
  24. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Based upon my description of a military weapon it can be. I understand that there are special ops guys who actually carry one. Hell the M-1 carbine the weapon I qualified with in boot camp was a military weapon one but I woukd not use it as a military weapon today. It would be fun to win and blown away chipmunks.
     
  25. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In Defense of Bayonets and Horses!
    http://www.theblaze.com/news/2012/1...oblems-with-the-presidents-zinger-last-night/
     

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