Mueller-Dämmerung

Discussion in 'United States' started by Striped Horse, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Only just a tiny fraction of them.
     
  2. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    That's a stunning endorsement. Only a half a dozen of the President's men are indicted.
    You righties. You funny guys.
     
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  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I love it--the lefties call me a righty, and the righties call me a lefty. LOL
     
  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's how witch hunts work. Put all democrat critters under the microscope and 1/2 of them would get indicted.
     
  5. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, yeah. :blahblah:
     
  6. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    General Flynn and George Papadopoulos for two.
     
  7. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    And both are victims? Are you kidding?

    General Flynn pleaded guilty to lied to the FBI regarding his Russia contacts. Where is he an innocent victim of whom, please?
    George Papadopoulos has also pleaded guilty that he lied under oath. Where is he an innocent victim of whom please?

    Dude ... did you understand that both committed a crime under US law and were rightly convicted?
     
  8. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    What would you have done differently?

    Would you plead guilty to a minor offense, or tell the entire weight of the US government to go ahead and destroy you and your family?
     
  9. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    O my god ... and I chose these words as atheist ... how much twisting of facts and realities are now coming please?

    Now they have selflessly sacrificed themselves in favor of their country, with their confessions of guilt.

    So slowly I have to seriously wonder if Darwin's theory of evolution also has a reverse in humanity.
    The same **** I read of convicted Nazi criminals after the WW-2, as they themselves declared personally being guilty of crimes committed in favor of Germany ... and the Neo-Nazi scum made out them suddenly victims and heros of Germany!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  10. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Let have been the case Hillary had won and the same accuse of "Russia Gate" would have be done against her and all happened the same as here etc. ... You would have started the fire for the witch burning first ... for sure!
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would never have happened in the insiders knew that. They all thought she would win.
     
  12. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    The righties have a distinguishing set of statements to rationalize Trumps indiscretions.
    You're it's not so bad statement fits in the same group as the but Hillary and but Obama ones.
    Take 2 aspirins and stay away from righties for a week, it may go away all by itself, otherwise it may take a shrink.
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do my shortcomings have to do with the fact that Dershowitz has made the same allegations about Mueller that I have- and given arguments in support of those allegations .. arguments that you have failed to address nevermind refute ?

    Do you have anything other than Ad Hom and Projection ?
     
  14. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    GOP doesn't need a "clean candidate", this is something Democrats don't understand. Democrats want the 'PC', inclusive, feminist, green, diverse... GOP is fine without much of that.
     
  15. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    "Associates" here are friends or acquaintances of those "investigators" (the forty or so of them). So this means someone told a frend that he was on Mueller's team investigating for collusion and he didn't agree with the way Barr described Mueller's conclusions. We also don't know at what (if any) level the purported investigator functioned, nor what he (she or it) investigated. I doubt all 40 investigators were involved in every investigation, I'm sure they shared information, but without knowing the source of an investigator's "associate's" information, his (her or it's) role, responsibilities and position, it is hard to see what information they could have on the investigation or how accurate they are in criticizing Barr's summary of Mueller's conclusions thereupon.

    It has been reported many of the nineteen lawyers on Mueller's collusion team had strong Hillary ties, they donated time, money and effort to her campaign. We know Mueller's investigators included at least two very high ranking elements with blatant and quite explicit anti-Trump bias (Strzok and his adulterous mistress) Yet they couldn’t find solid evidence of collusion. There’s no spinning that away.
    I hope nobody's views have become "hardened" (I suppose they mean people are now certain Trump did not collude with Russia to defeat Hillary). I genuinely expect a redacted Mueller report will be made public, and also expect sensible people will consider both the volume of redaction and the matter revealed. I hope we all can look at what is disclosed and determine if there is enough conclusive evidence to support claims of collusion, then consider whether the redactions in each conclusion suggest a coverup or may be necessary for some lawful reason.
    I doubt they discussed this at all, Mueller drafted his report expecting to deliver it to the AG and that the DoJ would then comply with whatever legal requirements in disseminating it.

    Barr got the report, delivered his summary, said he'd provide it to Congress once he'd reviewed it and removed anything that could compromise other matters under ongoing investigation that have been handed off, revealed sources and methods, could harm the reputations of any individuals involved or any Grand Jury deliberations.
    Resolving the obstruction claim was one of Mueller's tasks, maybe it is too 'close' a call and Mueller really wasn't sure, but this is exactly a "prosecutorial responsibility". Barr opted for the ancient legal maxim in dubio pro reo (when in doubt favor the accused). So Trump wasn't infamously "exonerated" on this, but Barr looked at what Mueller had found, discussed it with him (and Rosenstein) and found not enough evidence.

    We'll get the report, the obstruction considerations are not likely to be subject to redactions by their nature, we should be able to draw our own conclusions on this. Yes, I'm sure these conclusions will be partisan, but there will be evidence we can (unless too partisan) evaluate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  16. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think Hillary lost because of Sanders. He refused to drop out and endorse her, bringing out the worst in her for the public to see. She thought she 'favored' and paid with tax dollars, her way into office.
     
  17. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Not my problem if BOTH you and Dershowitz are 100 wrong!

    There is NOTHING that supports either of your bovine excrement allegations about Mueller!

    I have quoted the Law and the Authorization whereas all have unsubstantiated opinions.

    That is a DE FACTO debunking of your baseless opinion.
     
  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    In other words the GOP is going to make the same stupid mistake with their candidate and hope that the Dems are dumb enough to repeat their mistake too?
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are welcome to your opinion that Dershowitz is wrong. The idea that posting arguments from Dershowitz - with respect the special powers of Mueller - does not constitute support for the claim that Mueller had special powers .. is complete nonsense :)

    What is also nonsense is you claiming Dershowitz is wrong when you have not addressed a single one of his arguments - never mind proving that he is 100% wrong.

    That my friend is "Bovine Excrement"
     
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  20. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yep, there were a few non trump voters who noticed an overwhelming stench involved in this russiagate fiasco, pointing to an abuse of power that should eventually send people to federal prison. The same stench, although less overwhelming stimulated the sense of smell with the Smollet tale.

    Thankfully a few journalists, those who are actual practicing journalists, like Greenwald tried in vain to school the trump hating democrats, and to warn them not to exclaim such certainty and make utter fools out of themselves. But there was just too much hatred, and a sore loser mentality that trumped any rationality, reason and responsibility involved so that it rendered these people along with MSM effectively brain dead, or at minimum severely compromised. And this is why IMO, most partisans should be given so little relevance when it comes to things of this nature, and will never ever be a part of any solution, but alas a great hindrance to ever being minds that are of any value, at least when problems must be addressed sanely and responsibly. In short, this really is a "people problem", manifested by mental instability created by the emotions. And until both sides of hyper partisanship become self aware enough and act in a responsible manner to address this Achilles Heel, this obstacle to logic, rationality and reason, do not expect any improvement. It isn't constructive or promising that the current mentality in regards to the Mueller report coming from those who were so certain in regards to the conspiracy is signaling that anyone has learned a damned thing of value from this. The corruption is just too deep, too entrenched, and there is no "better side" arising from it. There does not appear to be any desire, in fact, quite the contrary.

    What should have taken place is MSM admitting that they did not practice journalism, with these corporations firing people like Maddow, and most of CNN's stable of propagandists, and being responsible by bringing in genuine journalists, if we can even find enough of them these days. But then again, how long would they last, before they had to flee the US as Greenwald had to do, for practicing genuine journalism?

    The scary part of this Meuller investigation can be readily found in Dr. Corsi's new book, where this innocent man was subjected to the perjury traps that is common practice today in these special investigations, and which was used by the Mueller team, and by other special counsels in the past. The old USSR has nothing on these special investigations, IMO. Corsi was willing, at age 72, to die in prison over lying in order to avoid dying in prison. And up until the report was finished and released, he thought he would be indicted, as the farce played itself out.

    There should be little doubt that nothing legit drove this particular special counsel, and it is even very possible that the soft coup mentioned by VIPS in early 2017 indeed was happening, involving the upper tier at the FBI, and the heads of intel like Brennan and Clapper. A criminal minded intent to remove or at least make ineffective, a newly elected president who had just beat hillary, who all of the pundits, polling and MSM declared before the fact, that she was the next president. I will never forget this election, for it revealed something some of us had already suspected to be our reality, instead of some tin foil hat conspiracy theory. It also revealed just how common the abuse of power is, by those who hold it, and just how DC is filled with scumbag criminals who could not give a damn about a Republican form of gov't and accepting the peaceful transition of power to another party.

    And yet, this is moot to partisans, the partisans on the losing side, and of no significance nor relevance. So, at the end of the day, this is a "people problem" and most things generally are. And until americans become greater in character, and stop relenting and sucuumbing to the base side of human nature, the cesspool will continue to emit a stench that is unbearable to those who value fairness, logic, rationality, reason and being responsible human beings. As it continues to be a threat to our society and being able to maintain, or get back a republican form of democracy.

    It brings to mind the old cartoon I once saw in a newspaper, where one of the characters said something like, "I have seen the enemy, and it is us." And an enemy much greater than russia, with its economy the size of New York State.

    End of rant/sermon. ha ha
     
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  21. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, you can see it coming together already, there are 15 or so Democrats running for president already, none seem that good an option to me, they're all lurching left to pick up AOC sympathizers. Then you've got Trump, we'll see how this 'investigating' develops, the Mueller report, criticism over whatever is redacted, demands for more information, claims over how things were handled, granular analyses by virulent anti-Trumpers, remote implications interpreting vague language... What is needed to oust Trump is something clear and convincing, it doesn't look like there's much of that, and since Democrats won't let go, since they are already looking into Trump's finances from decades ago, it is obvious to the rest of us this isn't about collusion, its about ousting the President. That makes Trump more attractive a candidate, citizens don't want their elected President ousted. People who might not even like Trump could be pushed to vote for him if they don't like the way Democrats are trying to get rid of him.
     
  22. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From what I can tell, unless Barr is lying an does not care if he gets caught lying, Mueller did find that trump was not a puppet of putin or russia, for there was nothing in the evidence that would lead to an indictment, nor is there any basis to conclude the democratic tin foil hat theory was anything but a tin foil hat theory.

    And, I told ya so, from the get-go, because it was too much like a fictional spy novel coming from Clancy, as the dems scrambled to explain how their unbeatable hillary lost to some dolt like Trump.

    Objective people had a problem with this conspiracy theory from the outset, and it ended up being what these people suspected it was.

    But at least one left leaning democrat was not taken in by the insanity, the emotions. Greenwald. But once Greenwald tried to warn your crowd not to get their hopes up, it seems MSM who once used Greenwald to give his thoughts on subjects, suddenly shunned him. Only FOX and Democracy Now, a left leaning outlet gave Greenwald time to speak. Now, why is this? ha ha. Well, that is rather obvious, isn't it?



    Yep, there were a few non trump voters who noticed an overwhelming stench involved in this russiagate fiasco, pointing to an abuse of power that should eventually send people to federal prison. The same stench, although less overwhelming stimulated the sense of smell with the Smollet tale.

    Thankfully a few journalists, those who are actual practicing journalists, like Greenwald tried in vain to school the trump hating democrats, and to warn them not to exclaim such certainty and make utter fools out of themselves. But there was just too much hatred, and a sore loser mentality that trumped any rationality, reason and responsibility involved so that it rendered these people along with MSM effectively brain dead, or at minimum severely compromised. And this is why IMO, most partisans should be given so little relevance when it comes to things of this nature, and will never ever be a part of any solution, but alas a great hindrance to ever being minds that are of any value, at least when problems must be addressed sanely and responsibly. In short, this really is a "people problem", manifested by mental instability created by the emotions. And until both sides of hyper partisanship become self aware enough and act in a responsible manner to address this Achilles Heel, this obstacle to logic, rationality and reason, do not expect any improvement. It isn't constructive or promising that the current mentality in regards to the Mueller report coming from those who were so certain in regards to the conspiracy is signaling that anyone has learned a damned thing of value from this. The corruption is just too deep, too entrenched, and there is no "better side" arising from it. There does not appear to be any desire, in fact, quite the contrary.

    What should have taken place is MSM admitting that they did not practice journalism, with these corporations firing people like Maddow, and most of CNN's stable of propagandists, and being responsible by bringing in genuine journalists, if we can even find enough of them these days. But then again, how long would they last, before they had to flee the US as Greenwald had to do, for practicing genuine journalism?

    The scary part of this Meuller investigation can be readily found in Dr. Corsi's new book, where this innocent man was subjected to the perjury traps that is common practice today in these special investigations, and which was used by the Mueller team, and by other special counsels in the past. The old USSR has nothing on these special investigations, IMO. Corsi was willing, at age 72, to die in prison over lying in order to avoid dying in prison. And up until the report was finished and released, he thought he would be indicted, as the farce played itself out.

    There should be little doubt that nothing legit drove this particular special counsel, and it is even very possible that the soft coup mentioned by VIPS in early 2017 indeed was happening, involving the upper tier at the FBI, and the heads of intel like Brennan and Clapper. A criminal minded intent to remove or at least make ineffective, a newly elected president who had just beat hillary, who all of the pundits, polling and MSM declared before the fact, that she was the next president. I will never forget this election, for it revealed something some of us had already suspected to be our reality, instead of some tin foil hat conspiracy theory. It also revealed just how common the abuse of power is, by those who hold it, and just how DC is filled with scumbag criminals who could not give a damn about a Republican form of gov't and accepting the peaceful transition of power to another party.

    And yet, this is moot to partisans, the partisans on the losing side, and of no significance nor relevance. So, at the end of the day, this is a "people problem" and most things generally are. And until americans become greater in character, and stop relenting and sucuumbing to the base side of human nature, the cesspool will continue to emit a stench that is unbearable to those who value fairness, logic, rationality, reason and being responsible human beings. As it continues to be a threat to our society and being able to maintain, or get back a republican form of democracy.

    It brings to mind the old cartoon I once saw in a newspaper, where one of the characters said something like, "I have seen the enemy, and it is us." And an enemy much greater than russia, with its economy the size of New York State.

    End of rant/sermon. ha ha
     
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  23. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe most citizens seek to be governed by an entrenched Democrat intelligentsia, even Democrats would prefer to believe they governed because most people found their policies and practices more appealing. The problem is most people don't actually find Democrat policies and practices that attractive, this is why Hillary lost, had nothing to do with Trump, collusion, Russia, or her emails. Long ago I was taught that in the US people vote with their purses, the state of the economy is all that matters. At the ballot the citizen considers his financial condition, if he is content, optimistic, has a positive outlook, then he votes for the incumbent, otherwise its for the opposition. The best that could be expected from Hillary was "four more years", and the economy was in poor condition as that "sluggish recovery" continued, so people voted for change.

    There's also this issue of incrementalism, it is clear that gradually the sort of policies Democrats favor and are so incredulous anyone could oppose, do get implemented; slavery was abolished, women got the vote, child labor gets forbidden, working conditions improve, pollution is regulated, the environment protected... Progress in many areas follows Democrat goals and is ongoing, but it is gradual. Unfortunately, Democrats favor this "big tent" approach that brings in all sorts of very particularized interest groups whose priorities are extremely urgent to them and the whole Party has to prioritize so they don't lose support. So we get people rejecting any incremental approach, "abolish ICE" is not an aberration.
     
  24. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    With the stuff that has been coming out of Progressives mouth the last two years, this is really a hilarious comment

    Do you not see the hypocrisy in what you are saying?
     
  25. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Those oppose the forward progressivism of America are very silly.

    They do not see the hypocrisy in what they are saying.
     

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