Mueller-Dämmerung

Discussion in 'United States' started by Striped Horse, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Mueller's report did not exonerate Trump of obstruction. AG Barr, and his Deputy AG Rosenstein did that themselves. Trump has been exonerated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  2. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Barr said that Trump was not exonerated by the report.

    Neither Barr not Rosenstein said Trump was exonerated from all criminality.
     
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  3. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is straw-grasping going on. It will take some time to accept reality.
     
  4. PrincipleInvestment

    PrincipleInvestment Well-Known Member

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    Never going to happen. They still claim Clinton wasn't impeached.
     
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  5. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure we will find out more, but:

    While the termination letter and several administration officials initially stated that Trump fired Comey solely on the recommendations of Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, several other reasons were later offered. Some cited a Rosenstein-authored memo and Comey's subsequent allegation that Trump asked Comey to drop the FBI investigation into former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.[49]

    According to "four congressional officials", the dismissal took place just a few days after Comey requested additional resources to step up the Russia investigation (the Justice Department denied that such a request was made).[50][51] On May 9, hours before the dismissal, it was revealed that federal prosecutors issued grand jury subpoenas to Flynn's associates, representing a significant escalation in the FBI's Russia investigation.[52][53]

    In an NBC News interview, Trump stated that when he decided to fire Comey, "I said to myself, I said, 'You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story."[54] During a May 10 meeting in the Oval Office with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, Trump allegedly told the Russian officials "I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job ... I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off ... I’m not under investigation."[55][56]

    Calls for a special counsel "intensified" after the firing of Comey, according to the Washington Post,[57] and Mueller was appointed eight days after the firing.[58] The hiring of Mueller marked "a concession by the Trump administration to Democratic demands" for the investigation to be run independently of the Justice Department, according to the Washington Post.[57]

    The New York Times reported on January 11, 2019, that FBI counterintelligence grew concerned about Trump’s ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign but held off opening an investigation because of uncertainty about how to proceed on such a sensitive matter. Trump’s behavior during the days immediately before and after Comey’s firing caused them to begin investigating whether Trump had been working on behalf of Russia against U.S. interests, knowingly or unknowingly. The FBI merged that counterintelligence investigation with a criminal obstruction of justice investigation related to Comey's firing. Mueller took over that investigation upon his appointment, although it was not immediately clear if he had pursued the counterintelligence angle.[59]

    I think the investigation finished about $18 million in the black.
    They should probably give that to Mueller and the boys as a bonus.
     
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  6. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Now that the hoax has been proven to all but the most committed of truthers, it's obvious that Trump was right to fire one of the hoaxters.
     
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  7. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Oh, no doubt he can do that. The question is why he invited a special council investigation by the way he did it. Just doesn't seem like something a stable genius would do. :)
     
  8. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    My opinion is that no matter how or why or when he might have fired him, it would have been used against him.
     
  9. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Montage
    Hah. Jokes on you.
     
  10. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, your right. After looking into it a little more a special council was required the minute they launched an investigation that included the President. So it didn't really matter that he fired Comey. According to DOJ policy there would be a special council anyway.
    https://www.justsecurity.org/60757/...ntment-special-counsel-both-legally-required/
     
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  11. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All criminality? Can anyone ever be exonerated from ALL criminality? It's the old 'Show me the man and I'll show the crime' situation with the leftists anxious to get out there and destroy more lives.

    Another Democrat 'hi tech lynching' as Clarence Thomas put it, or trial by mob as the KKK Democrats did.. There is no shame left among leftists or much of the MSM and, in truth, there never has been. It's past farce now and has entered an area of profound disgust.
     
  12. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There have no sense of truth, honor, or decency remaining in the Democratic Party and the electorate will be reminded of this until November, 2020.
     
  13. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Will it make a difference?
     
  14. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I believe it will make a difference in middle America, the decent people who genuinely hold the country together.
     
  15. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I hope you're right.

    I'd like to believe it.
     
  16. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Proving obstruction of justice requires showing specific intent, Mueller has questionable evidence of possible efforts by Trump to impede, interfere or influence the investigation (it all is rather subjective and what seems obvious to some, doesn't to others), but proving evidence of Trump's specific action, his statement, or a tweet was with the intent to obstruct justice is much more difficult as it depends on a variety of highly contextualized implications and suppositions, the circumstances and other considerations.

    I am pleased to note the debate now is focused on this obstruction issue, I suppose the collusion claim is over. How does the conclusive lack of evidence of collusion affect the obstruction issue? Would this mean none of those "no collusion!" tweets could be evidence of obstruction? Ultimately it is Comey's firing which presents the most compelling case for obstruction, but if he was fired for pursuing an investigation into collusion it would seem that (given Mueller's conclusion) this was not obstruction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  17. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Because that never happened. You were duped.
     
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  18. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Because there was no "interference", just as there was no "collusion".

    Both those narratives are giant hoaxes perpetrated by known liars and adhered to by idiotic dupes.
     
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  19. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Kneejerk denialism instead of credible substantiation of your fallacious bovine excrement beliefs duly noted for the record.
     
  20. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Great job by Mueller and his team IMO.

    Not only did they catch a bunch of criminals associated with the BLOTUS and put them behind bars they also turned a NET PROFIT on the investigation. That is an astounding achievement for any government agency.

    The investigation did PROVE that the Russians interfered in the election on behalf of the BLOTUS and against Hillary and the Dems which means that this does need to be STOPPED from happening again in the future.

    Not at all surprised that there was no direct collusion with the Russians. The BLOTUS campaign was a shambles and it would have been impossible to prove that bunch of misfits were capable of convincing the Russians to work with them. Yes, the BLOTUS campaign did make some overtures towards collusion but the Russians probably said NYET since they didn't want to tainted by the BLOTUS. After all the Russians still have their own self respect and reputation to consider.

    The OoJ charge was always a political football and it is obvious that the BLOTUS is guilty of OoJ but there is insufficient evidence for a prosecution which is why it will just remain as an indelible STAIN on the BLOTUS for the record.

    Now we get to the really good news.

    By not charging the BLOTUS with anything it means that he will be the disaster that the GOP will be burdened with supporting in 2020. Even better it means that the Dems don't get tainted with having to impeach his YUUUGE orange ass. Mueller did the Dems a YUUUGE favor by taking that off the table for them. Instead the Dems can focus on tarring and feathering the shreds of the BLOTUS's reputation with the electorate. By the time the general election rolls around the BLOTUS will be so politically toxic he might even cost the GOP the Senate.

    Given the potential alternatives I am glad that this was the outcome because it placates the BLOTUS supporters in the short term which is something that did need to happen. The electorate can render their verdict in 2020 instead.
     
  21. James Knapp

    James Knapp Well-Known Member

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    The verdict is that he is innocent. Who must you hear it from to convince you? This is a huge own goal for the Democrats now and for the 2020 campaign. The fact they still won't keep going on about it and now questioning the integrity of all 17 departments who investigated this is proof that they are the true anti-American party. I think a lot of fence sitters will recognize this. Combine that notion with the absurd claims that the world will end in 12 years probably means more Republican voters in 2020.
     
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  22. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Lol ... but that has so absolutely nothing to do with the legal presumption of innocence in Trump and his followers. On the contrary ... any evidence or fact is simply ignored ... and if that does not work, it's suddenly fake news ... sorry, I forgot: alternative truth.

    Anyway ... The Mueller report is out and Trump is relieved ... so far. Is this a result that's OK, but if I recall the scolding of Trump, his administration and his fans and what kind of **** Storm came from this site ... well ... Kindergarden!

    However, the accusation of attempting illegal interference in investigations is not yet off the table with the report ... as the report itself states!
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  23. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Give us an example of a fact that was called fake news.
     
  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually it is. Mueller found no attempt to interfere in the investigation. Sucks to be a TDS sufferer at this point in time, They all told us to wait for the report now they are whining about the report.

    "Hope and Change" takes on another meaning for them.
     
  25. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    What was the name of Trump's first security advisor? Do you still remember...?

    Michael T. Flynn! Be smart, why he had to leave, and how was the reaction of Trump, his administration and his fans when the allegations became known! Here you have directly the first of many examples of alleged fake news of the evil lefties and liberals, etc. ...
     

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