Muslims integration fail

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Canell, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    So, if those numbers are not a proof of Muslims integration fail, I don't know what is.
    This only shows that even after several generations Muslims don't integrate and remain the same backwards freedom-hating lot. What is the point of doing the same stupid mistake over and over again - trying to integrate them?
     
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  2. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, you don't understand how the liberal mind works - we're supposed to integrate with them. :blankstare:
     
  3. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Point taken. :alcoholic:
     
  4. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

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    Well, it might be that the majority that didn't vote would have voted Against. They would more likely be the ones that felt they had moved on from a connection to the homeland, that is to say, they were more integrated into EU society.

    But in any event, those statistics give lie to the often cited view that the immigrants we get are the most entrepreneurial forward thinkers.

    Clearly we get a fair dollop of worker drones...
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  5. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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  6. The Mandela Effect

    The Mandela Effect Well-Known Member

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    To my horror that is what I think they want but won't just come out and say it.
     
  7. Diamond

    Diamond Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't prove anything to me because you failed to define what a "yes" or "no" vote even meant.
     
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  8. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about, only first generationers could vote on this referendum, why else do you think about half of the Turkish nationals in Germany were eligible to vote?
     
  9. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    As almost always on this forum when non-American issues are being discussed, things are not even remotely as Armageddon-ish as some people think.
    For those that are not familiar with this referendum:
    Simply put, Erdogan wants to change Turkey’s political system towards a presidential system with him in charge (of course) and enormous political power in his hands. IMO basically a Turkish Putin system with only fragments of democracy left.

    The numbers:
    63% of those Turkish voters living in Germany who actually took part in this referendum said “Yes” (pretty stupid IMO, but that’s another matter).
    3,5 million people of Turkish origin in Germany. 1,5 million with Turkish citizenship and therefore eligible to vote. Voter participation was pretty much 50%, = 750,000 who actually voted. Around 63% of those 750,000 voted “Yes” = 450,000.
    In fact only 13% of all Turks in Germany voted “Yes”.
    Or 30% of those that were eligible to vote said “Yes”
    Btw, we’re talking about people of Turkish origin in Germany; making this a case of “all Muslims are …” is really superficial.

    One has to understand that many Turks, even when they were born in Germany or have been living here for two or three generations are very nationalistic. Turkey as a country (especially due to its founding myth and the Turkish war of independence - the US is not the only country with such a war) is an extremely patriotic and nationalistic society. Can’t compare this to immigration in the US (which is something that apparently many yank users on this forum constantly do and thus fail to see that looking at other countries and their political issues through American glasses doesn’t lead to any half-way accurate insight).
    Turks living in Germany have traditionally strong ties to their homeland and are not as much ‘absorbed’ by the host country as immigrants in the US for example.
    Among other things, this is due to the fact that the first Turkish immigrants who came to Germany never intended to stay, but wanted to work here for five, six, seven years and then go back. In reality things turned out differently, but this “we’re only temporarily here” mentality is pretty strong.
    If you’re a little familiar with Turkish history and the history of immigration to Germany after WWII, this is not surprising.

    This is a topic being discussed in the German media as we speak. Many commentators, journalists and politicians are critical of this voting behavior, even well-known (and rather left) journalist Sonia Mikich published a critical comment.
    Btw, I don’t know where this “immigrants we get are the most entrepreneurial forward thinkers” comes from and whether it’s an American thing, it’s definitely not a German thing and that was very clear from the get go when Turkish workers came to Germany in the early 60s.
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK...that sounds pretty Armageddon-ish to me. It means the nearly century long Turkish experiment with Westernization and democracy is effectively over. Turkey is moving away from the West. Now that doesn't mean the four horsemen, but it does mean that NATO needs to re-evaluate Turkish membership and the idea of Turkish integration into the EU should be dead as a door nail.
     
  11. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Furthermore, we have to consider that Erdogan declared a demographic war to Europe by calling turkish people living in Europe to breed as fast as they can.

    They were a fake quote of an algerian president "the womb of our woman will be our weapons", it seems Erdogan mae it true.

    The muslim immigration in France & United Kingdom start to be rather old (50 years old), or we can see the disaster it became. I'm rather a liberal, but the kind of one who is hostile to religion and don't like exceptions. Only a fool can except different result from a same cause.
     
  12. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Did you read the article from post #5 that I gave? :constipated:
     
  13. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    It was more meant in reference to the voting behaviour in Germany.
    But I agree pretty much regarding Turkey's position within NATO. I think Erdogan will give NATO massive headaches in the future and Turkey is definitely moving away from the West. Unfortunatley, geostrategically the country is rather important.
    As far as a possible EU membership is concerned, that's pretty much off the table. Negotiations have been placed on hold anyway for quite a while now and IMO Erdogan knows that his politics make a membership impossible. I think he doesn't even want to join anymore and if he really is to introduce the death penalty again, the European door will definitely be closed completely. Brussels informed him a while ago and he's aware of that, but doesn't seem to care.
    On the other hand, Erdogan's approval ratings in Turkey are "only" slightly above 50%, which means almost half the population doesn't really agree with his politics.
     
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  14. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing in that article negates what I am saying, the only people eligible to vote in the referendum were first generation Turkish citizens. There are 3 million Turkish immigrants in Germany, out of which about 1.5 million were eligible to vote (you must both be a Turkish citizen and registered in order to vote), out of which only 400,000 voted, out of which about 63% voted in favor of extending the president of Turkey's powers. That's 252,000 out of over 3 million Turkish citizens in Germany who voted for extending the president of Turkey's powers.

    That's 8.4% of Turkish citizens in Germany, or 16.8% of eligible voters living in Germany
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  15. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it would be interesting to see how the young Turks would vote, if they had the right to do so. Knowing that almost all terrorist in the last years in Europe were second and third generation immigrants, it's not hard to draw a conclussion about how would they vote. Of course, this is not proof per se, but the opposite extrapolation is also as vague as this.
    And when we are at it, why do Turks have citizenship at all? The word "gastarbeiter" means "guest worker", right? A touring worker doesn't need a German citizenship, nor do their children. But the islamo-leftist political lies got out of hand, didn't they? Germany is betraying Europe since the 60's.
     
  16. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    The guys who committed the attacks in Paris in Nov 2015 and those who attacked the office of Charlie Hebdo were French and Belgian citizens of Algerian and Moroccan origin (two of that group were from Iraq). The attacker in Berlin was from Tunisia and came to Europe as a refugee. The idiot who attacked a tourist family in a train in Würzburg and was shot by the police the same day was from Afghanistan.
    What does that have to do with Turks living in Germany? You’re comparing apples and oranges here, which doesn’t make any sense.

    People of Turkish origin who are eligible to vote in German elections vote mostly Green, social-democratic and left. Last general Bundestag election: 64% voted social-democratic, Green 12%, Left party 12%, conservative 7%.
    German language skills needed.
    https://www.bayernkurier.de/inland/14819-in-deutschland-links-zuhause-religioes-konservativ/

    That concept of Gastarbeiter has been dead for four decades; you’re digging up a corpse here. The word itself is almost never used anymore. Very few people still use it and only when specifically referring to the very first generation of work immigrants who came in the 60s and have now been retired for years. And as I already mentioned, the original plan turned out very differently and in reality and a few hundred thousand stayed instead of returning as originally planned.
    BTW, it were the sending countries that put political pressure on the back then German government to allow their citizens to immigrate to Germany and work there.
    At the moment, Germany is the migration destination no 2 in the world, second only to the USA. These days majority of immigrants are from other EU-countries.
     
  17. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Muslims make up less than 2% of terrorists in Europe

    https://thinkprogress.org/less-than...he-e-u-are-religiously-motivated-cec7d8ebedf6

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  18. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  19. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    It's indeed what they want; no need to think it is. Islam is the new left's religion, very fashionable.
     
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  20. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The left likes Islam because they have a common enemy: traditional Western values.
     
  21. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    Yep. So do many on the far right as well.
     
  22. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

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    If idiots let Turkey join NATO then the U.S. needs to drop out. Let Europe support the animals; they've been so successful and wonderful at it for hundreds of years, right?... lollerz.
     
  23. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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  24. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    You know how I know that's BS? passports don't specify one's religion. You're talking about a media report, not an official criminal record related to terrorist attacks

    Kashmir is a region in India, so it is not unusual for a person from India to be referred to as being from India. Why the first article specifies the specific region of India along with the subject's religion probably has more to do with the two reports being written by two entirely different author's for two different reasons (one being related to what was notoriously known as the "Muslim ban") than having anything to do with official state records.

    Also, the second article directs the reader directly to the first article under "More on this story"

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-39138083

    So no, nothing was changed. Two different reports were given two different titles
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  25. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    Another terrorist attack by the religion of peace last night. Happy?
     

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