My Doctor says I don’t need the vaccine after contracting covid.

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by ShadowX, Nov 22, 2021.

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  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ah! So no basis for a decision just “what your gut tells you”

    Good luck with that! Especially since there is waaay, waaaay, way more to statistics than high school maths
     
  2. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    The science that validates my original claim is natural immunity. When one gets sick with something and fights it off, one then has natural immunity to what infected them. One's immune system remembers the contagion and can more effectively fight against it in the future. That's all part of the adaptive immune system. Of course, there's also an innate immune system.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  3. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Precisely my point.

    Yes, it is. Mandating an EUA jab is unlawful.

    Yes they are. Yes they are.

    Some do, as it relates to the nature of the job.

    Do they??? Additionally, flu shots are not EUA.
     
  4. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Well, if company all of a sudden forces me to inject questionable substance and disclose medical information I can at least contest it and have a chance to get unemployment benefits.
    In case of Biden mandate unemployment benefits will be denied because company going to refer to the government mandate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  5. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Statistics is not the "guts".
    Political science is a garbage science.

    Once I see real reduction in COVID death rate, we can have meaningful conversation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  6. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which substance is questionable to you?
     
  7. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Natural immunity doesn't last a life time. So that refutes your claim for those who've had the virus there's absolutely no reason to get the shot. And you claim there's some science to your statement. So far, all you've given is your opinion. Which is wrong.
     
  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    A point that was never in question.

    EUA is not mandated. Unless one is a gov't employee or their private employers require it as their own policy and that applies to contractors they employ as well.

    No, they are not.

    Most employers require drug tests. I haven't had an employer ask for one in a couple of decades.
    Company policies always relates to the nature of the job and interacting with other workers.

    I know of several hospitals that require flu shots annually as a condition of employment. Employers can do that. Any employer in fact.
     
  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    There is no Biden mandate, a judge ruled it not legal. So you don't have to worry about being denied because of a mandate.
    But you could be denied for violating company policy. But I bet most companies may chose to not fight that.
     
  10. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Do you really do not understand sequence of events?
    Without Biden mandate company would never force me to inject biological garbage in my body.
    Now, fearing Biden's ability to punish companies they will continue to abide, despite illegality of mandate.
    There is another mandate about government employees, which somehow spread to contractors and now subcontractors, and may be subcontractors of subcontractors.

    If company fears to lose government contract (about 40% of the economy) they will implement all kind of policy that government wants. If it is a coercion it is a mandate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  11. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does.

    No, it doesn't. Whenever one gets COVID and recovers from it, one's adaptive immune system, from that moment henceforth, is much more equipped to fight it. That immunity lasts for life. There is absolutely NO reason to inject immunity into someone who already has immunity. That's just plain stupid.

    Yes, there is.

    No, I've informed you of the basic immunology of the matter. I'm informing you about immunology and how an immune system works.
     
  12. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    You completely ignored everything that I said and just repeated your same mantras, so see my prior response for my response to this one.

    No new argumentation presented.
     
  13. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Biden has nothing to do with your company policy, unless it is the fed gov't or contractor to fed gov't. Which I stated many many times. So I understand perfectly. 60% of the economy has no impact to Biden mandate.

    I am neither, and I am NOT mandated to get a vax.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I saw no point is addressing your personal opinion. I don't see any value in personal opinions unless one is an expert on the topic.
    The point about unlawful policies was a point no one brought up but you. And I agreed with that point previously.
     
  15. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I don't accept your opinion as fact.
    Especially when it contradicts science.

    What is your expertise in basic immunology? Because it doesn't mesh with the medical world.
     
  16. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    What am I saying that contradicts science?

    I have studied it and have some knowledge on the matter.
     
  17. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Why have people gad covid more than 1X?
    Why do those who had the vax get covid?
    It seems we are not all immune for life.
     
  18. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Because some people don't have as good of immune systems as other people do.

    Because the vax isn't working and because vax immunity isn't nearly as good as natural immunity is.

    Anyone who has gotten COVID and recovered from it HAS IMMUNITY, and that immunity lasts for life. You seem to erroneously think that immunity means that one cannot contract the disease ever again...
     
  19. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    If one gets the same virus more than 1x, the immunity they had was useless.
    So a booster for better immunity would be a help
     
  20. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    No. The immunity they had is not useless. This is a common misconception that will have to be remedied because everyone (vaccinated, unvaccinated, recovered from natural infection) will be infected/reinfected eventually.

    All the emphasis on immunity from “experts” has been on neutralizing antibodies targeting the spike protein. But both the vaccines and natural infection produce very long lived effective cellular immunity that protects from severe disease even in subsequent reinfections or breakthrough infections when neutralizing antibodies fail.
     
  21. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    No, it just means that their immune system isn't as good as other people's immune systems are.

    Nope, vaccines result in worse immunity than natural exposure results in. There is no need to get jabbed again and again and again...
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So a vaccine is useful in adding more immunity?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  23. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    But better immunity than the no good immunity from already having it once.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Adding to what?

    A booster will “add” a big increase in neutralizing antibodies targeting the spike protein to the previously vaccinated and those with natural immunity. Available evidence shows this is a temporary boost. We don’t know if boosters will enhance cellular immunity at this point.

    A natural infection after vaccination will “add” antibodies targeting more parts of the virus. This helps with retaining efficacy against mutations. Natural infection also produces long lived plasma cells and B cells that “mature” to produce antibodies with more affinity for new variants. These processes do not occur with vaccination to nearly the extent they occur after natural infection.

    Hybrid immunity (vaccination plus natural infection) is superior to both vaccine induced immunity and to immunity from a single natural infection. Nobody will study immunity from two natural infections, but it’s likely far superior to vaccination or hybrid immunity.

    Everyone WILL be infected with SARS-CoV-2 at some point. Natural infection immunity will play a major part in ending the pandemic. Not only does it result in B cells and antibodies more likely to be efficacious on new variants, but viral load (and therefore transmission) from reinfections after first natural infection is much lower than from breakthrough infections after vaccination alone.

    Both vaccination and naturally acquired immunity are good. It’s time to accept the strengths and weaknesses of both and use both to our advantage.
     
  25. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Adding to the immunity that had faded from either a previous vax or actual covid.

    Which is what you are saying. Natural infection and vaccine will improve immunity to the disease.
    Also, that is what I was trying to say to gfm.

    And neither natural infection or vaccine protection will last for a lifetime. At least enough immunity to be protective to most people.
    But it does appear there will be some antibodies in people for perhaps the rest of their life.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021

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