My gun control compromise

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Maccabee, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Quite correct, (excepting California) as long as you let the buyer know the vehicle has been modified, this also applies to required safety equipment it can be sold that way.
     
  2. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you really claiming hand shovels are regulated?

    That is so far from the truth, it's bizarre.

    I have bought many shovels over the years and never had to even show my ID to buy one, all the merchant wanted to see is my payment.
     
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  3. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha, not in my state or California or class 3 heavy equipment.

    Nope, altering the emissions and safety devices then putting them up for private sale is a big no no. You’d better check your state laws if you go messing around with the pollution and safety devices on your car you then sell It privately. There’s a big reason why your owners manual says “ refer this item to a certified dealer.” It’s called, liability. You’ve just never been caught.

    Using an excavator for a sand box ? Maybe you live in the woods. There are some zoning rules you need to address if you live in most residential areas to even bring this stuff onto your property. Ha ha....sure....
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  4. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Btw, you’re talking about cars you keep on your property. I’m talking about cars to be used as intended and licensed for road use.
     
  5. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I stand corrected. It is fewer than "most" states. I amended it to 22 states. My question never changes in all the gun control threads. Name one law preventing Flaco the felon from getting a gun.
     
  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You’re right. No one law does, especially ones that make no provision for enforcement. I know that stronger gun laws work. They work in most states and countries that have them. If we had universal background checks, it does NOTHING to affect the law abiding citizen.

    As a matter of fact Illinois which has successfully implemented it, law abiding gun owners that I talk to, like it. They get a permit just once during a time period to buy or purchase anytime. Then, they just show it for every purchase of gun or ammo they make, including private sales. It cuts purchase times down to simple retail sales. It would not hinder me or any law abiding citizen at all....one bit. I Own guns and have a conceal carry permit.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah yes, thats the distinction I apparently failed to convey. Similarly, I imagine that even the biggest, most heavily modified and worst emitting excavators are also legal to sell to someone to keep on their property, just like automobiles.

    Which is noteworthy in the 'regulate guns like cars (or excavators)' context because because very few people are going to agree that I can have any gun with any capability so long as it stays on my property.

    TBC, gun laws are more lenient for guns that someone builds themselves and keeps on their property. For example, if you manufacture the reciever, it doesn't have to be stamped with a serial number, unless it is removed from the manufacturers property. However, other limitations, like liscencing requirements for full-auto, caliber maximums and likely minimum/maximum overall lengths apply regardless of where the weapon is kept, unlike automobiles and construction equipment.
     
  8. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats your opinion and that's fair enough, buy you cannot honestly claim to know that stronger gun laws work. The same way criminals don't turn themselves in, Those willing to risk the penalty of murder are not hindered by gun laws.

    Gun control is done using the Boil the Frog method. They know they can't take gun rights away all at once, so they slowly turn up the heat. In Los Angeles, no CCWs are issued to ordinary citizens. Only cops, judges, and criminals carry guns here.
     
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  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    We know one thing for sure. Every study done, shows that states in the United States and countries in the free world that have stronger gun laws have fewer gun crimes. There are very few exceptions. I really don’t care to debate what local municipalities do, especially large cities with densely populated areas as they are special and local.

    They are all situations when the discharge of a firearm will likely hit an innocent person, even if fired for protection unless it hits a wall first. Literally everywhere is a crowded room. I was a cop for ten years. The most fearful situation, was violence in densely populated or crowded areas with the possible firearms involved , including my own. . They deserve and need autonomy in decision making. In the state I live now, any round fired will likely hit a tree within 50 yards and our gun laws are practically non existent. And that’s fine. Move to a rural state if you want to live by the “ sword” so to speak.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    The reason I picked an excavator was pretty simple. A decent mid to large one cost new nearly as much as a modest house and they are ridiculous to buy unless they are kept busy to pay for themselves. If it’s sitting on your own property, you’re losing a ton of money. Nearly all their jobs are highly regulated and most jobs need to be posted or plan submitted to local boards, the only exception is the millionaire who lives down the road from me who has 150 acres of land and has developed a long term development plan. He owns one, but it still works regularly.

    these things are mostly sold used on consignment through dealers.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  11. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure about that ? You can’t have some weapons anywhere legally without a license. That’s not like a car.
     
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. Im just saying thats why regulating cars isn't very similar to regulating guns.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I hear you. I’ve never equated firearms with automobiles because autos carry mandatory insurance/ liability requirements.
     
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rgr. I must've misread or mixed up my posters.

    :beer:
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Those that present hyperbolic nonsense as if it were valid, should be prepared to defend their use of such when it is challenged on the premise of logic.
     
  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    instead...


    We can Enlist and be a real soldier. Learn to be dedicated to a cause, team work and most of all, be a protector of all citizens equally and the constitution we live under. You know, the real one with all ten of the bill of rights.

    There is much more to being in the military then playing with hardware you will never be trained for as well as a real soldier. That’s their job. Ours is to be good fathers, brothers and husbands, not playing soldier. That you were suppose to give up that when you were 12.

    Besides, there are 3-4 support personnel for every soldier in the Army. So 3/4 aren’t running around playing with military weapons. They are doctors, medics, cooks, supply personnel, logistics, engineers and many other fields. Being a real soldier for most means learning things other then killing and breaking things.

    so, you want to be armed like real military people are ? 3/4 have stethoscopes, drive tractors, ambulances, they cook, clean, pack and move supplies etc. and do things pretty much like every other person does in civilian life. But, they do it for a cause... they protect us and are not involved in overthrowing the govt.

    This is why these pipe dreams mean little. Boys with toys have no support personnel.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  17. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Off topic and ultimately irrelevant to the discussion. Doctors who serve in the military are not trained to be the very best doctors they can be. Soldiers are employed to further the interests and and efforts of the government they work for, and are armed for the purpose of furthering said interests.

    Private individuals are under no obligation, and have no need to be subjected to the same standards and requirements of engagement.

    Being armed for legal purposes has absolutely nothing to do with the dismissive notion of "playing soldier" or any other derogatory comment that may be issued up either on the part of yourself or others.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You’re really offensively delusional of how Army MDs are trained aren’t you ? They are educated at the same medical schools as private doctors. They owe service as part of their tuition coverage by the government or like me and not you, they can chose to serve their country and protect our constitution instead of complain and whine . That’s your one minute of attention from me. Moving on.
     
  19. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Demonstrably false. It is illegal for a felon to purchase or possess a firearm in all 50 states, and it is illegal for a seller to knowingly sell them one in all 50 states.
     
  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Wrong....I’m right in every way.
    So, you’re expecting * the convicted felon to turn himself in ? Dont hold your breath. The proof of legality has to come from the seller.
    Glad you included the stipulation, “ knowingly”.
    It’s perfectly legal for a private seller of a firearm to sell a firearm to a convicted felon, simply by complying with the law exactly. The private seller law federally doesn’t require an ID, BC or even demonstrating legality. As long as you abide by this federally and don’t do what it doesn’t ask for , you are absolved all responsibility as a seller. . Simply put, plead and practice ignorance, and you're Home free. It’s laughable listening to gun fanatics bob and weave over these weak federal laws.

    Driving a car without a license can be LEGAL and not enforceable, if you were never required to present it when asked by proper authorities. Only laws that have provisions to ensure their enforcement, are proper laws. Private sales federally don’t require proof and are generally not enforceable.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  21. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Irrelevant to your claim. It is illegal in all 50 states.

    No it isn’t.
     
  22. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Using the word “irrelevant” is short hand for..” oops, I fked up.”
    You are totally wrong . You used the word “ knowingly”.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
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  23. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No, what I wrote was in crystal clear English. Your comment was irrelevant to the claim you made. It’s illegal in all 50 states.
    Both is illegal. Knowingly carries a greater penalty.
     
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  24. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Knowing them to be a felon is key, if a person does not know the buyer was a felon and the buyer stated he was not a felon, the seller cannot be charged with a crime, however the seller still can be held responsible civilly for any damages the felon caused with that firearm, as such they could be sued into bankruptcy.

    The easy way around this is to meet the buyer at a local FFL and have the FFL complete the transfer, in many states this is a meet, ID, pay and go operation, money is exchanged through FFL, and technically because the FFL bought the firearm from one party and then the FFL sold it to another., that eliminates any liability on the part of the seller and allows private parties to safely and easily transfer a firearm.

    Easy, because someone else does all the paperwork which protects the seller.

    Safer, because of the location, a buyer who has the intention to rob the seller of his firearm or case out his home for other booty to come back later and steal, the buyer has to go to a gun store, a place where it is common for all the employees to be carrying loaded firearms, which equates to, not a good place to try pulling off a robbery.

    On the other side, where a lot of people end up in prison for selling firearms to felons is, they do know the buyer personally and as such will know the buyer is a felon.

    Most commonly this is a boyfriend or girlfriend or spouse, caught buying a firearm for a felon, that felon then uses the firearm to commit a crime and sooner or later gets caught or killed and the LEO's then have the firearm, they send the make model and serial number of to BATF who begins a forward search, finding out who distributed that firearm all the way out to the the buyer.

    Once that path is in place BATF goes out and reads the FFL's 4473, or kicks it back to local law enforcement, either way, the 4473 provides law enforcement the buyer personal information and the photo ID that was used to confirm the 4473's, personal information matched the person's ID.

    .
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
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  25. BasicHumanUnit2

    BasicHumanUnit2 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
    Look how for they've infringed on the Constitution already.
    Background checks for ammo in California.......and we just keep letting them move the line until one day guns are no more.
    [​IMG]
     

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