My Proposal For Allowing Abortion

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by M.A. Survivalist, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

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    One of the arguments that the pro choice crowd likes to use to further their cause is that they say women have a right to their bodies and that includes getting abortions if they choose to. Well therefore this is what I propose.

    With conjoined twins, sometimes they can be surgically separated. However, both twins have to consent to the surgery. Just because one conjoined twin wants to be separated doesn't mean they can get separated without the other twin's consent. It can be argued that the twin who wants to be separated has a right to their body, well so does the other twin and so that's why both need to consent to the surgery in order for it to be done, at least legally.

    That being said this is what I have to say about women being allowed to get abortions. A pregnant woman should be allowed to get an abortion only if the unborn baby consents to it. Just like with conjoined twins where both twins have to consent, if a woman wants to get an abortion both her and the unborn baby have to consent.

    So this is what I propose as the condition in which abortion should be allowed.
     
  2. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Minors don't consent (or not) to medical procedures themselves, their parents of guardians do on their behalf. Older children often will (and should) be consulted but even then the default legal rights and responsibilities lie with the parents.

    I don't think this helps in any way with the unique moral and practical complexities of abortion.
     
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  3. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's ridiculous... You do know that an unborn child cannot express consent, right?
    I mean... what's it supposed to do exactly, kick once for yes and twice for no?
    What if it hasn't even developed enough to be able to kick.. or to think for that matter?

    But seriously, if it doesn't even have a consciousness, and has never been conscious in the past,
    there's really no sense in talking of things in terms of consent, as you might as well be asking
    your hair for consent to be cut off at that point. So how about this instead?...

    The following is an abortion compromise proposal that a bunch of us here at politicalforum came up with following a Ranked vote on the subject. Would something like this be acceptable to you? And even if not your ideal, would it at least be acceptable to you as a compromise?

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/pf-abortion-reform-compromise.550627/
    -Meta
     
  4. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thats a long stretch for a weak point. Abortion laws failed long before the internet and abortion drugs. Please tell us how you would enforce your version of what should be "allowed"?
     
  5. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    A simple rule is if you don't want one don't get it.
     
  6. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

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    Alright, that being the case I would like to point out that there are people who get pregnant and who get abortions who are under the age of 18. Should somebody be allowed to get an abortion whose under 18 without the consent of their parents or guardian? Should somebody be required to get an abortion if they're under 18 if that's what their parents or guardian wants?
     
  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Just as with other legal matters, the child can petition the court so the court can make the decision.

    Do you think a father that has raped his 16 year old daughter should have a say in what happens?
     
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  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's shifting to an entirely different question. I'd be more than happy to discuss it as long as you're acknowledging that "proposal" in your OP is obviously and ridiculously flawed. I'm also curious whether you didn't realise the flaw or you were trying to make some kind of obscure point. :cool:
     
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  9. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

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    A father that rapes his 16 year old daughter should be in prison where he doesn't have a say on anything.
    Anyway, when it comes to petitioning the court, in that the unborn baby should be able to petition the court if the mother wants to get an abortion and if the unborn baby can't petition the court then the abortion should be postponed until it can.
     
  10. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    More ridiculousness!... An unborn child can no more "petition the court" than it can express consent to an abortion.
    In fact, this new idea is even more absurd than the last,... as at least the kicking for consent idea... had legs! :wink:

    But seriously though, if it doesn't even have a consciousness, and has never been conscious in the past,
    there's really no sense in talking of things in terms of consent or pretending as if its possible that a fetus
    could somehow "petition the court" from with inside the womb. Again, you might as well be asking
    your hair to write up a formal request for permanent residency recognition on its own behalf.

    So what then exactly would be wrong with us simply going with something more realistic,
    such as the PF compromise proposal I posted earlier?... Would something like that not be acceptable to you?
    Would is not meet your needs as a compromise? And if not, then why not??

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/pf-abortion-reform-compromise.550627/
    -Meta
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I will go along IF and only IF you find a way of gaining consent

    Now

    What is your proposal in the case of the pregnancy causing a life threatening situation?

    Are you going to demand “consent” before a miscarriage?
     
  12. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

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    There is no way, therefore it is a de facto ban on abortion.

    Every attempt should be made to safely remove the baby.
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    It is IF and only IF the foetus is viable otherwise it is a termination of pregnancy

    Now a couple more questions about “banning abortion”.

    How are you going to tell the difference between an abortion and a miscarriage?

    And. What level of health risk are you expecting women to take?
     
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  14. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    I think post-birth abortions should be legal up to 18 years after birth.
     
  15. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

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    So funny I forgot to laugh.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  16. Ritter

    Ritter Banned

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    What is abortion?
    Put in the simplest and most concrete of ways; abortion is the termination of an unwanted pregnancy.

    Is the solution to illegalise abortion?
    No because the abortion in itself is not what is the problem. Abortion is the solution. Furthermore, it should be clear to anyone who understands basic economics that demanded goods and services do not vanish when the government illegalises them - It hands them over to the black market and creates an even larger problem than the initial one.

    How are unwanted pregnancies to be regulated?
    Why, on the individual level. Just like cavities are prevented by individual toothbrushing, unwanted pregnancies are regulated by individual sexual responsibility. Of course, cavities can be prevented by cutting sugar altogether and unwanted pregnancies can be prevented by never having casual sex. But, most people seek pleasure and that is fine as long as they brush their teeth and use contraceptives.

    Most human beings seek pleasure. A glass of Coke brings pleasure. Cavities do not. Sex brings pleasure and an unwanted pregnancy does not (for neither woman, what is inside her nor man who put it inside her). So, just be responsible and cautious with your actions and aim for happiness.

    I see no reason for abstractions and overcomplications. The most Pro Life thing to do would be to advocate self-responsibility and this advocation would also be in the interest of Pro Choicers.

    You are saying you are against abortion because God says so?
    Well, then leave the power of judging the sinners to God. Do not hand over God's power to the State.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  17. Ritter

    Ritter Banned

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    Which also means if you want one, go and get it.
     

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