Nadler: Formal Impeachment procedures now underway

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You better step it up lefty....investigation of the source of this witch hunt having it's Genesis with Agencies programmed to defeat Trump and elect Hillary will beat you to the punch. The attempted coup will be revealed and people will go to jail.
     
  2. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Never have seen a waist that high!
     
  3. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Constitutionally the courts have no right to decide that.

    "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."
    — Article I, Section 2, Clause 5
     
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Doesn't matter how "formal". My point is that there is a process. Articles of impeachment don't pop up out of nothingness, as you seem to believe. They can come from a formal process (like Nadler's) or from a less formal process (like Green's last month)

    And when they come from a formal process, it's proper to call them "Formal Impeachment Procedures"
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  5. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    What? You're still expecting Trump to lock up Hillary? That's hilarious!

    Go for it, Sparky!
     
  6. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    The whole point of this "formal impeachment process" nonsense is to convince a judge to release grand jury testimony. The judge will decide if it is "formal" or just another desperate ploy by Democrats.
     
  7. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    So your point is that Articles of Impeachment, no matter how introduced are, by the mere fact that they are Articles of Impeachment, the result of a formal process.

    I disagree. I think Al Green's brain, the origin of two, count 'em two, Articles of Impeachment is an excellent example of nothingness.
     
  8. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    You seem to believe that judges decisions pop up out of nothingness. Dead wrong! They must follow the Constitution. If the judge doesn't follow the Constitution that would indicate that they are corrupt.
     
  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No!!! There you go again.

    Will you ever be able to understand what you read?

    Rule of thumb: whenever you feel like starting a sentence with "So your point is" or "You believe that"... or anything similar... you can be sure that you are wrong!
     
  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Exactly, that is why I said, "Starting an impeachment inquiry and discussing potential articles of impeachment could be advantageous in removing Trump in the November elections, but actually impeaching Trump could easily be disastrous and result in Trump's victory in the 2020 elections. The Democrats would be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."

    You do know that impeachment is simply an indictment. The trial takes place in the Republican controlled Senate where it is extremely unlikely they will remove the Republican President. You make it sound like impeachment is an end onto itself. It is not.

    Maybe that is your problem. There is nothing more important than removing Trump as President. Surely you agree the worst thing that could happen to our country is another four years of Trump. A failed impeachment will do that, and I have serious doubts our country would ever be same after a second term of Trump.

    Keep something in mind. The communist dictator of Russia helped Trump become President. Putin didn't do that out of the goodness of his heart.
     
  11. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They might not get Hillary....just Comey and some of the other low level perpetrators, but it WILL point a finger,Lefty.
     
  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You've spent every day since the November 2016 election trying to prove that and failed. Now you state it as fact in spite of your failure. That is tenacity I've got to hand it to you. After 2020, I think they better put you on suicide watch Sandy.
     
    Professor Peabody likes this.
  13. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh please do 56% of voters in a CNN poll said they don't favor impeachment, only 37% do. It will be the biggest help in getting Trump elected since Hillary ran.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I really don't see how it would be disastrous. All scenarios that play in my head are either advantageous for Democrats or, in the worst of cases, neutral. Trump bragging that he was protected by a partisan Senate just doesn't seem to me like something that will gain any votes for him other than the ones he already has. The worst of all scenarios would be one in which Trump manages to get away without a public inquiry, and all the other witnesses protect him and risk being held in contempt. I don't see that happening with the two most relevant witnesses: McGahn and Hope Hicks.

    And this is based only on the Mueller report. I am convinced that Nadler has much more to bring out on Trump's financial crimes.

    So even if the Senate protects Trump, I see no way in which people watching the facts playing live on TV. can benefit Trump. On the other hand, not impeaching him will give him bragging rights. Just picture him in October 2020 bragging about how Democrats were "unable to find anything to impeach him for". That talking point could be very bad for Democrats. And how will Democrats explain to the average voter that the only reason they didn't impeach was because they were afraid of the backlash?

    And it will be even worse off if Democrats are left with no clout to impeach during the second term. And that's exactly what will happen.

    If they impeach now and Republicans protect him, that's something voters can understand. And the doors remain open for impeachment during the second term. If they don't impeach now, and try to do it during the second term, it will look like desperation. And that will give Trump all the clout he needs to do whatever the hell he wants in his second term with zero fear of oversight.

    Keep in mind one thing: the sitting President is always favorite to win re-election. A President has all the advantages. So no impeachment keeps those advantages intact.
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh no! That must be Comey's worst fear: having somebody point a finger at him!

    Listen, Sparky.... I'd be all in favor of locking up Comey for... whatever reason. I mean, the guy made Trump President. So I'm not a big fan. Problem is this Administration is so full of it. They throw a bone at their gullible voters, and you guys eat it all up. So I doubt it's gonna happen.
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Impeachment means he and his accomplices get in front of the cameras, under oath, and make their case. If they prove they are innocent... great... we will all know. And we will all breath easier if he's re-elected. If they don't... well... let's see what your beloved CNN polls say after that.
     
  17. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You need a new windmill.
     
  18. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    WASHINGTON — The Senate Intelligence Committee released a bipartisan report Thursday on Russian election interference that found the U.S. election infrastructure was unprepared to combat “extensive activity” by Russia that began in 2014 and carried on at least into 2017.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...ensive-russian-election-interference-n1034736

    On Thursday, the heads of the national security agencies said that Russia was still trying to influence and disrupt the midterm elections in the United States. Their pointed statements contradicted President Trump, who has continued to cast doubt on the role Russia played in the 2016 presidential election.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...russian-interference-statements-comments.html

    According to US intelligence officials, Russian hackers made repeated attempts before this year’s election to get into major US institutions, including the White House and the state department. The tactics were simple: send out volleys of phishing emails and hope that someone clicked.

    Security experts believe two Kremlin-connected groups were behind the hacks. One was was from the FSB spy agency, the other from Russian military intelligence. Amazingly, they appear to have operated independently.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...r-putin-donald-trump-us-presidential-election

    "You've spent every day since the November 2016 election trying to prove that and failed. Now you state it as fact in spite of your failure." :roflol:You are too familiar with your brethren, Trump fans. I don't lie, and I don't make things up.
     
  19. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    No, it does not mean that at all. Trump will never appear in front of a House impeachment hearing. He will never appear in front of T.V. cameras in any kind of impeachment inquiry.

    That simply will not happen. Trump's personal lawyer, William Barr, will ensure the full force of the DOJ will prevent that from happening. If need be, a majority of conservative judges on the Supreme Court will be standing by.

    You are way overestimating the powers of the House. They can't even get McGahn to appear, and he doesn't even work for the White House anymore. He hasn't for four months.
     
  20. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    You are overlooking the Republican spin machine. It is very good, better even than the Democratic spin machine. The GOP spin machine can turn lies into truths, obscure and misrepresent reality.

    For example, if the Senate exonerates Trump, the spin will be he was innocent of all charges. Knowing the Senate will exonerate Trump, what if there are no charges, just facts and evidence that nails Trump to the cross and the voters decide? That would be advantageous for the Democrats, would it not?

    The House has been trying for months to get McGahn to appear. He hasn't. Hicks appeared, protected by lawyers, and gave very little in the way of evidence.

    Trump will have very good lawyers, the best. That could go either way. I would not trust that to change viewer's mind. I would rather rely on the news media and those unseen charges I mentioned above. Trump's lawyers will have little impact on how the media plays the evidence provided by the House. But his lawyers will have powerful impact on the Senate proceedings.

    The American voter is not stupid. If an impeachment inquiry complies a mountain of evidence, then House members can explain carefully the reason they do not want to impeach is because they don't want to cause further division in the country and that the Republican Senate will obviously acquit the Republican President. They can further explain they don't want to waste Congress's valuable time in a useless Senate trial.

    American voters will understand that.

    Sorry, I will not contemplate a second term for Trump. That simply can't happen. Hence, my views on a failed impeachment attempt. What I don't understand is why you think a failed impeachment attempt will somehow benefit the Democrats.

    Trump is the least popular President in modern American history.

    His inflammatory rhetoric encouraged angry, young men to commit three mass slayings in eight days.

    His trade wars are causing turmoil and massive losses on Wall Street, hurting every American with an investment retirement account. His tariff policy is causing an inflation/recession cycle.

    Trump is his own worst enemy. Hi moronic tweets are for his base only, and they are far from a majority.

    On top of all that, the House will provide mounting evidence that Trump is incompetent, benefiting financially from his Presidency, and committed felonies for which he may face criminal charges when he becomes a private citizen on Jan. 21, 2021.

    I'll go with that.
     
  21. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No one has ever doubted the Russians want to sow discord in American Politics. So do the Democrats and they use info gathered by Russian Spies to do so. We are too familiar with Democrats to not know they commit crimes and then accuse the opposition of doing the same thing. Take a pill Sandy.
     
  22. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No. Because the Republican spin machine would say "See? No charges! No collusion, no obstruction, no impeachment!" Facts are meaningless if people don't know them. And the facts are in the Mueller report, but nobody is going to read it.

    And if you try to explain the Mueller report in 30 second ads, they will simply respond "If that's true, then why didn't they impeach?"

    On the other hand, picture McGahn on national TV explaining how he was pressured by Trump to fire Mueller. Or Hope Hicks explaining how she heard Trump on board US1 dictating to Junior how to lie about his Trump Tower meeting. Even if Republican Senators don't vote for removal, those images will stick in the minds of voters.

    Exactly! All of this changes with Impeachment. There is no fifth Amendment protection with impeachment. There is no executive privilege. Because it's a political, not a criminal, process.


    The best criminal lawyers. But this is not a criminal process. The Constitution is clear. Impeachment belongs to the House and only the House.

    "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."
    Article I, Section 2, Clause 5

    Could it be any clearer?

    The American voter may not be stupid, but they do have a short attention span. This is the question we will never be able to answer to an average voter during the campaign: "If Trump did all those things, why didn't Democrats impeach?" And that explanation is too long and complex to fit on a bumper sticker. You have to start by explaining to them how Impeachment works. That if it passes the House, it has to be approved by two thirds of the Senate, and that even though Democrats control the House, Republicans control the Senate Never mind a bumper sticker. That's won't even fit in a 30 second ad.

    Compare to "No Collusion - No Obstruction - No Impeachment!".

    Not impeaching will forfeit the bumper-sticker war and the 30 second ad war. And that is really dangerous!

    I insist: this is the question I fear the most "Why didn't Democrats impeach?" And if we try to explain about the Senate and the two thirds and... all that long crap, they'll just scream

    "Bull!sh!t... ...

    "The House of Representatives ... shall have the sole Power of Impeachment."

    Democrats control the House... period!

    Counter that in the same amount of time it took them to spin it, or you'll have lost the argument.

    That makes no difference. With or without impeachment he will still be the least popular President in modern American history. What matters here is how much of the vote Democrats will be able to bring out. We can do that by waiting for them to read the Mueller Report vs their "No Collusion,- No Obstruction - No Impeachment" bumper-sticker. Or we can drag them before the cameras so the American people can see for themselves what Mueller saw and the rest of us read.

    Those are all valid points. But they are equally valid with or without impeachment. Except on the last one. We will either have to hope to make the case for those felonies in 30 second ads or, again, we can show them on TV for the American people. Which do you think will be more effective?
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    What you don't see is two fold, first there is no intent by any of the powers that be in the house to actually impeach Trump, harass him and keep him from implementing his agenda to the greatest extent possible yes. But I will guarantee you that there will not be an actual vote on impeachment between now and election day. 2nd the voters are massively against impeachment every where but in California and certain precincts in New York. All this formal impeachment inquiry is about like it or not is placating and keeping people like you energized and active until after the election.

    In short old son you are being played like a prize trout on low test line. The Top Dems are going through the motions and that is all they intend to do.They aren't entirely stupid but they believe you are or at least they hope you are. They have read the tea leaves and don't like the message.
     
  24. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Sandy Shanks said:

    Keep something in mind. The communist dictator of Russia helped Trump become President.


    Perhaps, when the Russians broke into Clinton campaign computers, you think they were trying to help Hillary? :roflol:
     
  25. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Now you are dreaming. I seriously doubt that will happen. You want to impeach Trump because you think that will happen? And, if it did, I am not at all sure about the outcome.

    I have far more faith in the House version of facts and evidence provided by the media to which Trump's lawyers will have minimum impact, not maximum impact as they would with testimony.

    It is quite simple. Even the American voter can understand that, as things stand now, the Republican Senate will not convict a Republican President. A fourth grader can understand that. It is not rocket science.

    I have far more faith in the intelligence of the American voter than you do. The vast majority do not want Trump to get a second term.

    My only fear is, if the Democrats nominate a progressive who promises Americans a free lunch if they vote for her. That will cause a Trump second term.
     

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