National day to Commemorate Indigenous Massacres

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Bowerbird, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No resources are needed to bridge the gap. Just need to treat people equally, as we currently do. Are there instances of discrimination you would like to raise which we could abolish?

    If not we have reached the end goal.

    In any case, action is what's needed not yet another puhlic holiday.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    What happened in 1964? Or do you mean th 67 referendum?

    Our Constitution doesn't have a bill of rights, so it's still not against the Constitution to deprive any Australian of human rights.

    It is, however, against various laws, and against the International Bill of Human rights.

    Dunno what you're saying with international human rights vs closing the gap.

    Rights for Aboriginal people were achieved incremently over a relatively long period of time, although 67 was a real catalyst for change.

    There's still a strong thread of racism in our constitution with the race powers act though.
     
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  3. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    He is mistaken.

    There were laws restricting marriage for Aboriginals, and Aboriginals had to get permission to marry white people from the Chief Protector. Obviously racist, but certainly not a classification of Aboriginals as "Fauna". The idea that a government would classify Aboriginals as "Fauna" and then also allow them to marry white people, is obviously absurd. Marriage has only ever applied to people.

    From a quick google I believe in Queensland Aboriginal marriage was under the Aboriginals Protection and Restriction of the Sale of Opium Act and later the Aboriginals Preservation and Protection Act.

    As far as I can tell there has never been such a thing as the "Flora and Fauna Act of Queensland".
     
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  4. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Bowerbird

    If you don't like it,

    Why Don't You Move To
    :flagcanada: ;)
     
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You should give them all your possessions in atonement.
     
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  6. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now this is a comment worthy of a reputation, unfortunately I don’t know how to do it on this new platform or even know whether it exists.
     
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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    You know - I dont often have to say this but I was wrong!!


    Thanks mate - did my own googling and came across this gem

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-20/fact-check-flora-and-fauna-1967-referendum/9550650

    Seems it was a persistent urban myth, Given the propensity for humans to claim "protocols" that do not exist - especially that sub species of human known as the career bureaucrat I would have no doubt that he might have run into someone claiming that was the case
     
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  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry this sort of comment would elicit a response on the American side of the board but we just see it as trolling

    Wrong audience mate
     
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  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you don't think you should give them back the things you stole from them?
     
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  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    This is not about stealing. The stolen wages are a different topic and are being addressed through our court system.

    See ~ trolling for a knee jerk response is not going to get what you expect here
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure it is. You've taken these people off their land, use the land for yourselves, and bulldoze their communities in your cities.
     
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  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Errr what???
     
  13. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    A very simplistic view but not untrue.

    It is however a complex issue, I have found that the real problem is ownership of the issues themselves. If we can sort that out in a fair open and transparent debate we will be half way to solving them.
     
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  14. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Err What??? Not asking to feel shame but should feel shame for history??? That is just stupid. Trying to placate both sides that statement??? Sorry, you need to take a stand. Anzac day is not about feeling ashamed or demanding others to feel ashamed. Anzac day is not about apologising for the past. I don’t mind recognising the event either nationally.
    Isn’t that funny, this entire thread is about racism, the premise is that an action that happened to one group of people is not recognised as another and claims that we should go far above and beyond to be inclusive.
    If you look at the thread “Indigenous leaders want a formal apology from NT Police, amid renewed push for a national day of remembrance”
    Both actions are different and have no similarity other than people died. Clearly you don’t know why Australia recognises Anzac day and why it is remembered. Clearly you feel the recognition is similar to remembrance day.
    I agree with this sentiment and support it.

    Now you might think I am attacking you over these comments. Take it personal if you like, no intention to be so. Simple to say, I disagree with those comments in particular because they appear to demonstrate placation of position for the popular stand in the forum without conviction. I am not like that and see that the thread is based in racism to single out divisional beliefs and perpetuate racism in the disguise of caring beliefs.
     
  15. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    History is always written by the victors.
     
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  16. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you are attacking me at all, except for the very old argument that it is racist to ask for recognition of racism, you have nothing so you attack my conviction.

    I am not going to restate my argument we all know it. We all know the truth.
     
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  17. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do believe you lack conviction... glad you understand that part.


    Clearly you missed the point of the rest. I often in the past tried to point out the fact that racism flows both ways. The fact remains that trying to single out one group as being anything outside of the whole is in itself racist or bigoted. With this we have one group who have an ancestry different to another demanding not just recognition but action of a past incident (action, deed or crime whatever you want to call it) is simply perpetuation of racism in itself.

    I do not consider it constructive to inclusion and shows intention of dividing population based entirely on the ancestry. I see many continue to demand such while trying to portray tolerance, very perplexing to think they have the moral high ground when they cannot understand the most basic action of racism is to divide the people by difference of trait, in this case ancestry. In others is religion, pigments and as you so point out in another post the shallowest of understanding by colour of one’s hair… How bloody stupid is that…

    I don’t expect you to restate your argument as we do all know the truth, which is one of my major points here. The TRUTH.
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Until you have walked a mile in other people's shoes do NOT claim to know what racism is truly about
     
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  19. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    After reading the story on Wikipedia it reads more like a series of conflicts...a mini war where the side with the bigger weapons won. Whites were taking prisoners and questioning people and found themselves under attack I various times....enough so where "massacre" seems a little hyped.

    When I think of massacre I think of soldiers charging in and killing the entire camp, or Indians killing an entire settlement......

    That doesn't really play out that way in my opinion reading the incidents with the timelines. But Wikipedia is pretty much the most detailed I have.
     
  20. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'm not a fan of the Apartheidesque mentality we have in Australia where Aboriginal Australians have to be treated differently as a product of their racial heritage. Things like "Aboriginal Corporations" are obviously racist, but there's not much controversy about them. Seems to be broadly accepted for one reason or another that Aboriginals should be treated differently from the rest of the population, and in particular that they should be legally and politically segregated in various ways.

    I think a national sorry day, or whatever you call it, would be a little bit like when I go to the theatre and in a room full of several hundred middle class white people, some liberal arts hipster gets up on stage and does the whole "We acknowledge the traditional owners... etc" to polite applause. It's just like... come on now, let's not pretend anyone actually cares and this is anything more than narcissistic virtue signalling.
     
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  21. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    You are kidding aren't you??? You seriously have no clue as what or who I am. You have no clue as to what I have lived and what I have experienced yet you want to pretend your morally superior due to the fact I will not fall into your understanding of acceptable bigoted vilification, I don't understand what racism is???


    Please, reflect on your accusation, as it appears rather reflective.
     
  22. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    No I agree it was a massacre. I also agree it was not a slaughter. Massacre due entirely to the fact they were massively out gunned (so to speak). This was a war, battles were fought and people were killed. The indigenous populations face overwhelming force and many died from this clearly unnecessary action.


    It should be recognised and remembered so we learn from history. Not sugar coated to fill some need for apologists to focus on terrible actions to show their fake humanitarian appearance and try presenting their bigotry as empathy...
     
  23. johnnycanuck

    johnnycanuck Active Member

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    I don't know what a national day will accomplish. As a Metis Canadian we remember our fight against the government and our battles against Canadian troops. And the government has slowly addressed the wrongs done to us.
    Just teach the truth in your schools, be kind and reach out to your first peoples. Remember they didn't ask for this different life. They had as much pride in their life as you do in yours. They had so much taken is such a short time.

    A bit on my peoples rebellion against the Canadian government.

     
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