National Eviction Nightmare! People Chaining Themselves to Eviction Courts!

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Horhey, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol.

    He has freedom. The freedom to work as hard or as much as he chooses, take risks, make money, give money, purchase things all with free will.

    Oh my God! The atrocity!
     
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  2. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Get off the street, quit being a ****ing victim, and get a job. If that job doesn't pay enough find one that will. If you can't. You need more marketable skills.

    For ****s sake. Did nobody teach these children about their own self responsibilty?
     
  3. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They lack self-reliance and self-responsibility and pride in themselves. While those things used to be abundant within American citizens, those wonderful traits have been replaced with entitlement and lust for other people's stuff.

    The only thing they should be angry about is that they failed to become self-reliant and self-responsible. But instead, all that is in their minds is give me give me give me I deserve free stuff. And since they don't have the foresight to avoid -nor the honesty to admit- their failures, of course they are going to try to destroy this country and the freedom that goes with it.
     
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  4. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can own part of those companies and get your share of the pie too.
     
  5. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course. But there are some huge differences in the debt you mention versus the debt I am talking about.

    A capitalist borrows money and then uses that money to make more money which exceeds the interest owed, so he makes a profit.
    Most anyone with a brokerage account has access to that process also, and of course, if a person has a viable business model, he can most likely get a loan to start a business which is profitable. The point here is that the borrowed money grows and further down the road, the borrower has grown his wealth.

    Compare that to consumer debt - citizen buys a $45,000 truck and takes a loan. So after interest, he actually paid $55,000 for the truck. And 15 years later, the truck is worth $10,000. So he took a $45,000 loss of his wealth. Not smart. Instead, he should have bought a used vehicle and invested the savings in something that appreciates instead of depreciates.

    And there you have the secret of financial security.
     
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  6. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There you go. If you can do it, anyone can do it, right? If not, why not?
     
  7. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Sure, maybe, not....Or they could at least try.
     
  8. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    So? Barter existed before money. People traded according to the perceived value of the trade to each participant, at that specific time.

    But government means introduction and control of money, to establish the functioning of the state.

    Wrong. I oppose your evil survival of the fittest system.
    A system which works for all needs to ensure the basics for all.

    Whenever you require foods stamps, or now, cars lined up at food banks, you know your system is crap.

    An economic system that leaves no-one behind does not require "force". That's only your evil 'survival of the fittest' ideology speaking.

    To your evil, survival of the fittest world view, yes.

    Meanwhile, I will have fun watching how congress deals with the $200 versus $600 issue, with some repubs (and likely some Dems) claiming the US doesn't have enough money to support the unemployed.

    Now THAT IS pathetic neoliberal nonsense.

    Hint: study MMT. The US government cannor 'run out' of US dollars.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  9. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Me? Lol

    Did you say the same thing about impoverished Rust Belt factory workers in 2016?
     
  10. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Lol. Yes, I can. But not everyone can. When the economy is near full employment, which it was not too long ago, a huge swathe of working people can barely get by, while money continues to get funneled to the financial class. This isnt a morality play, it's history playing out before us, a systemic issue that will be solved, one way or another.
     
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    The voice of reason. Nice post.
     
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  12. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Your evil survival of the fittest mentality has it all backwards. (I'm not mincing words, because the survival of citizens is literally at stake in this pandemic)

    Not everyone can survive in the competitive marketplace to which you have reduced life itself.

    But a base line needs to be established, eg, via a guarantee of above poverty employment (except for the few who are incapacitated andwill have to be supported by the state).

    No neoliberal system ever achieves better than real 10% unemployment. (U6 + those who have given up looking).

    As for "wise" decisions, the whole profit-seeking private market system, aided and abetted by mind-numbing advertising, is based on people making unwise decisions in the junk-consumer economy.

    And that does not change the fact that in a modern money economy, people need to get money to survive, and therefore a basic job guarantee is required. We know by now, after many failed welfare programs, that poverty level welfare destroys morale.

    And why are there "citizens and politicians who are to wanting and working to "bring it to its knees"?

    And as a matter of fact, I don't see the same degree of community/political discord in mainland China as I see in the democracies, especially the US.

    Tiennamen Square was 3 decades ago. Since then the wealth of Chinese citizens has increased 10-fold in real terms, cf near stasis in median wages in the US.

    Meanwhile people are lining up at food banks in the US.....

    It's time for the (sovereign, currency-issuing) US government to authorise its treasury and central bank to change the numbers in the bank accounts of unemployed workers, to obviate the unfolding food and rent catastrophe.


    As for wanting to bring the obsolete, dysfunctional neoliberal system down:

    The US government cannot run out of US dollars. In this pandemic, inflation is not an issue. And in normal times, the issue is the availability of resources for purchase by the governement, and the nation's productive capcity, NOT any money amount designated as government debt or deficit.

    (Governement debt is not like household debt, the latter are USERS, not issuers, of the currency. That's your first lesson in MMT. Btw, notice some congress people don't want to support the states.....who are also USERS of the US currency.....what a freak show it all is.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  13. CWV

    CWV Well-Known Member

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    I moved to the rust belt in 2000. I'm doing fine.
     
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  14. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Alot of people aren't. That's why they voted for Trump. Did you tell them the same thing?
     
  15. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The key point in what you say above is "can barely get by." Barely getting by means different things to different people. It also means different things in different decades. If people who "barely got by" in the early 1900s were to come see what "barely getting by" means in 2020, they would have a serious laugh. Regardless, the point still stands, self-reliance, self-responsibility, and frugality will make sooner or later make one financially secure. Self-perceived victimhood only serves to perpetuate failure.

    History will play out, as you say. But we are nowhere near some type of "tearing down the system" because most people realize that the vast majority of us live damn comfortable lives, and that is because of the capitalist system. Most people still believe they should have to work for a living. Now, as technology advances and as we get to the point where automation/robots do practically everything, including mining/refining/recycling resources, growing food, producing products, providing energy, designing/building/maintaining themselves, and providing for all human needs, then the system will have to change. But we are nowhere near that.
     
  16. CWV

    CWV Well-Known Member

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    Why would I tell them anything different?
     
  17. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And when the local news shows late model Escalades and Navigators and Lexus RXs in the line at those food banks, you realize that it is something other than the system that is crap.
     
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  18. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Survival is relative. I haven't seen any starving people in the United States, ever.

    There is nothing evil about voluntary exchanges. If you give something to me, you expect something in return. That is fair. For you to require me to give something to you, but you don't have to reciprocate, that is evil. I do realize that this isn't really what you are referring to. MMT does have interesting points - more below.

    Do you fall for mind-numbing advertising and waste your money on unwise things? I assume the answer is no. Would it be wrong to expect others to have at least your level of self control? Perhaps we need to teach our youngsters to be better managers of their money?

    I agree with that to some extent. Giving money to people for nothing destroys their self-worth and motivation.

    Because many citizens are seeking to expand the free rides they already get, and certain politicians need their votes.

    Those who provoke discord in China are dealt with swiftly.

    After reading your thoughts in other threads over the past couple of months, I have been thinking on this subject. Considering your third sentence above, I think you are correct. But I disagree with your second sentence. I think inflation is an issue, even in a pandemic.

    While I appreciate your enthusiasm for MMT, I do hope this thread doesn't turn into a "MMT is good/MMT is bad' fest. That has its own thread already. Still, you have prompted me to look further into the theory of creation of money and how that newly created money enters the economy. That it could enter via a job program is interesting, and perhaps I ignored that in that other thread.
     
  19. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    Life is about choices. If you chose to cry about everything, those are the people who point fingers and blame others for their bad choices. Then they want handouts and bailouts for their poor choices. It's damn pathetic. No one, and I mean no one in this country is poor. If they are living under a bridge, they do it by choice.

    There shouldn't be a minimum wage. Why the hell should someone pay $15 bucks/hour for somebody that can't even speak English and screws your order up at McDonald's? Seal up the border and wages will go up without artificially propping them up.

    There shouldn't be any food stamps either (SNAP). Mexico doesn't have food stamps...is their standard of living better than ours? I don't see any skinny women there either.

    All these people bitching....they are the same ones with new phones, new cars, fat asses and tattoos out the wazoo. Basically a bunch of damn losers. Can't add, can't manage and can't think a month ahead.

    I don't care if people are losers. Just don't ask me to bail your asses out.

    If anyone thinks they're 'poor', keep in mind that there are countries in East Europe that have an average monthly wage at or below $500/month. The good thing about making $500/month is that they don't have enough money for tattoos and drugs...and they don't eat like pigs either.
     
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  20. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dont get me started on those cars in the food lines. 90% of them are newer and nicer than what I drive. (Both of our cars are old enough to vote) I could easily afford 2 separate $350 car payments, I just choose to to not piss away 8k a year so my neighbor can say "nice car".
     
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  21. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok, ill play.

    What gives the dollar in my wallet "value" to other people?
     
  22. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Absolutely.

    Nobody can fix other peoples employability but the people themselves.

    What you arguing is that typewriter repair people are victims and should be supported by everybody else. Im arguing they should learn a new skill that is marketable.
     
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  23. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Venezuela says you're wrong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
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  24. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    We tried to warn you that the consequences of lockdowns were going to be an economic nightmare, but you wouldn't listen, and you still won't listen.

    You refuse to hear anything but the sound of the political ax you're grinding.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  25. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Post gold-standard, floating exchange-rate, fiat currencies issued by sovereign currency-issuing governments possess 'value' because citizens need the currency to pay government fees and taxes, as well as engage in economic exchange with other citizens.

    Money is essentially an IOU issued by government.

    You mentioned Venezuela - a nation dependent primarily on one export commodity.
    Chavez was able to fund his socialist policies UNTIL the price of oil collapsed. it required.

    After that collapse, Venezuela could not import the medicines and foods it needed.

    Plus US sanctions, and debt denominated in US dollars - which Venezuela cannot issue - ensured economic collapse.
     

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