Nato members increase defence spending by $100 billion after Donald Trump called them 'delinquents'

Discussion in 'United States' started by Bluesguy, Jan 28, 2019.

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  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In 2014 Nato country military spending increased 1.83%, 3.14 in 2015 5.28 in 2016 and 3.78% in 2017.

    That is the first friggin graph in the NATO report entitled "Defence Expenditure of NATO Countries (2011-2018)" that I linked to.
    Here it is again:

    https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2018_07/20180709_180710-pr2018-91-en.pdf

    Trump definitely has goaded NATO members, but to claim he is the one responsible for increasing NATO spending, is factually wrong.
     
  2. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You made a claim that NATO had increased spending. You didn't claim some members of NATO had increased spending.

    That blanket statement is the only reason I have commented.
     
  3. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've provided data for every year since Obama's NATO summit in 2014.

    The data shows NATO member nations responded to President Trumps demands that they start living up to their obligations. It also shows the majority of Nations did not live up to their obligations made to Obama.
     
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. Time will tell whether the other nations actually put their money where their mouths is and whether we can then compensate ourselves.

    It will mean jack-**** if both of these dont happen. But this is a step in the right direction.
     
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We agree that trump's factually distorted rantings did goad some nations to add to their already budgeted increases.
    And NATO's own report decidedly does show that member nations were meeting their obligations made to Obama.
     
  6. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The data does not show NATO member Nations were meeting their obligation made to Obama. Only a few increased spending, and fewer still met the funding the levels they had discussed with Obama. That is not my interpretation or spin, that is based on the words of people like NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, and the reports taken from NATO itself.

    The data is there for anyone to see and review. Why the TDS crowd continues to deny the facts is amazing to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  7. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Is there some other commitment before 2024?
     
  8. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not that I am aware of. Your point?
     
  9. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to figure out what funding levels they guaranteed Obama.
     
  10. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not sure there was a guarantee. I believe the concept is a pledge.

    From the documents I have reviewed via the NATO website, each member Nation agreed to contribute at least 2% of it's GDP to spending on National Defense related to mutual deterrence.
     
  11. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    By?
     
  12. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't understand your question.
     
  13. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hello?!.

    I am not saying trump didn't spark SOME increase in a FEW nato countries, but the overall trend of increased military spending by those nations that did not meet the GUIDELINE of 2% of GDP was continuing with or without him.

    And yes SToltenberg is going to flatter trump. Everybody on the planet knows that is how you "handle" him. If Kim can do it, why can't stoltenberg?

    But like you I question why the TDS crowd continues to deny facts. Trump Delusions Sufferers seem to have a big problem with the truth and never met a nuance they could comprehend.
     
  14. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh ok, now it's excuses like Stoltenberg is going to flatter President Trump, and that's the only reason he admitted Nato as a whole would not meet it's target funding levels.

    LOL. Just can't bring yourself to give credit to anything the President does.

    That kind of bias and rejection of reality makes it pretty difficult to consider your point of view.
     
  15. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No wonder so much flies over your head.
     
  16. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL

    No, you're memes are quite easy to understand.
     
  17. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  18. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  19. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They have been talking about increases for 60 years.

    In 2011 they swore up and down to increase spending to 2% by 2024, so now they are basically saying the same thing to appease Trump. Everyone knows how to play him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  20. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    They agreed to it like you said 5 years ago and done nothing until, they were called on it 4 years later.
     
  21. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same.
     
  22. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The agreement was to hit the 2% target by 2024.

    Besides, they haven't done it yet, they only said they will in the future, which is what they always say.
     
  23. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Germany refuses
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...onference-sigmar-gabriel-Germany-REFUSES-Nato

    Canada refuses
    http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2014/09/03/...o-bid-to-raise-military-spending-to-2-of-gdp/

    You are not telling the truth, shame on you
     
  24. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    I think Russian intervention in Ukraine encouraged higher NATO spending, it evidently did in Poland, the Baltic States and the vicinity, but I've no doubt Trump's complaints also helped.

    NATO was created by the US to counter a very real Soviet threat to European allies which were devastated after World War II. The US developed a policy of Soviet containment and this required substantial military expenditures NATO's allies couldn't cover as they recovered from the war. Subsequently the containment policy was viewed more critically, this was something the US wanted and induced their generous military spending, so NATO members could channel resources that would otherwise be devoted to the military, into improving their infrastructure and building their welfare states. NATO's allies prospered as the US underwrote their military defense.

    With the collapse of the Soviets, any need for NATO was in doubt, it intervened to prevent genocide in Yugoslavia, to legitimize US intervention in Iraq and other "out of theatre" actions, but NATO's members were not comfortable with this perceived US intervention legitimizing role, they wanted the US to continue subsidizing their defense, but perceived their needs minimal. The tables turned when Putin invaded Ukraine. This is a simplistic exposition, but it covers the main points. Russophiles will point out NATO's eastward encroachment into some Russian sphere of interest. I believe accession to NATO by countries leaving the Soviet orbit was animated by the desire to replicate the west European arrangement (US subsidized defense) rather than due to some US strategy to more closely encircle Russia.

    Now we have a situation where Russia is a verified threat and NATO feels the need for greater defense spending.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  25. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Considering NATO countries had already agreed to increase their military budgets in light of increasing Russian expansionism and usual skullduggery, his "complaints" caused nothing but consternation and bad vibes all the way around. His ridiculous drool cup description of how nato works and is financed coupled with his insistence that America's allies are "taking advantage" of 70 years of American foreign policy is dramatic evidence of his blundering incompetence.
     

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