NATO Nuclear Weapon Sharing

Discussion in 'Nuclear, Chemical & Bio Weapons' started by Csareo, May 14, 2014.

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Should Nuclear Sharing be Outlawed

  1. Yes it should

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  2. No it shouldn't

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  1. Csareo

    Csareo New Member

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    Not much to explain. NATO has a policy, technically a bypass of the armstice agreements we signed, that allows countries to relocate weapons to other countries. The country maintains the nuke, but the host controls its use. Personally, what a terrible fvcking idea. "Oh Turkey, take 10 nukes, but promise not to shoot them unless we say. Mkay?" Absolutely ridiculous, that NATO spreads around more nuclear weapons.

    1200px-Nwfz.svg.jpg
     
  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Non-proliferation should be outlawed :)

    This idea that the big 5 nuclear weapons states can be trusted with nukes but everyone else can't is complete nonsense. Countries should be able to share weapons all they like - sharing a weapon is hardly justification for intervention. Preventive war and intervention seems to be the norm :/
     
  3. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Somebody didn't pay attention in kindergarten. You have to share your toys.
     
  4. Csareo

    Csareo New Member

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    I agree and disagree. Its stupid we allow some countries to have nuclear arms, but do you really want an unstable country like Sudan or Afghanistan to have nukes? Nations should not hold nukes, but rater a compiled NATO arsenal. Our goal is to remove nukes from the world, not allow countries to create more.
     
  5. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think our goal should be to remove nukes from the world. That's not possible. Such an attempt will eventually become a perpetual war on nukes :p

    There is no easy solution.
     
  6. Csareo

    Csareo New Member

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    Unfortunately your right. I'm not asking for a war on nukes though. Just diplomatically minimizing the effects of a supposed nuclear war. Nato Nuclear Weapons sharing is an easy fix, as technically, the US owns the nukes Turkey and Belgium have.
     
  7. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ownership of the nukes is not the issue, power to use them is. At least that's how I see it. Think of the 5 exception states to the NPT as having a gun license. The issue isn't so much who owns the gun - you're free (I guess) to sell the gun to someone without a license, so long as you don't actually hand the gun over. Him having the power to use the gun is the issue, not some abstract concept of ownership.
     
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    You have this very wrong.

    In weapon sharing agreements, the US has complete and total control of the weapon at all times.

    The only time it goes to the control of the host government is in the instance of a nuclear exchange. And at that time any non-proliferation treaties become irrelevant. The weapons are on NATO bases, in US bunkers, guarded by US personnel, and the US has 100% control of all failsafe features.
     
  9. Csareo

    Csareo New Member

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    No, i had it absolutely right. I said several times the host nation has control, but at the end of the day, were still putting nukes in another countries borders, where they are ripe for the taking. The government we share nukes with are also solely responsible for the nukes protection.
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Then you have it backwards.

    In the case of Turkey and US nukes, Turkey is the "Host Country". The host country is not the United States. The US is the guest or visiting country.
     
  11. Csareo

    Csareo New Member

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    Well, I further researched in hopes os supporting my case. Countries are indeed trusted with using the nuclear weapons. Its a simple process. We give the nation a nuke and we tell them to deliver it at our call. We reserve the right to take back our nukes at any time. They are not being stored in NATO camps.
     
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Well, without any references, I can't believe you did any kind of real research.

    This is what research looks like my friend. And in this instance, the 183 year old RUSI is a good and verifiable source.

    Well, let's start out with this interesting little tidbit, shall we?

    What is interesting about that is what is not said, but can be deduced by what is actually said.

    Some suggest that military staff could be included to staff the US nuclear forces. And what this obviously means is at this time, such forces are 100% American Servicemembers.

    But let us continue, shall we?

    Notice, nothing is said about responsibility, a very large omission if they are to actually be in control of those weapons.

    There, can't say it much more clearly then that, can it?

    And your claim they are not stored on NATO camps?

    Incirlik Air Base is a major NATO air base, controlled by the US Air Force.

    Kleine Brogel Air Base is home of the 52nd Fighter Wing and the 701st Munitions Support Squadron of the US Air Force.

    Each of them (like what was listed before) is a NATO base, with a US organization in control of them. Notice it clearly states "alongside units", not "by units".

    And once again, who is clearly in control of those weapons:

    Plain and clear, black and white, no question at all. The US controls these weapons, nobody else.

    Very clear there, "by the United States". Not "by nuclear weapons provided by the United States".

    Once again, "American nuclear warheads".

    https://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/NATOs_Nuclear_Dilemma.pdf

    There, that is what research is, and I provide a clear reference so that anybody can check my facts. And I can give even more references, this is simply one of the best so I saw no reason to bring in any others.

    What are your references?
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting on references to this research you conducted.
     
  14. Csareo

    Csareo New Member

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    Alright, Ill give you a half concession. NATO says that the missile's are in our control, protected and expected to be delivered by the established host country. They are under supervision of monitors.
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Half a point?

    But that was what your entire argument was about in the first place. That the US does not control the weapons at all (which it does).

    Trust me, I have actually guarded nuclear weapons. Absolutely nobody has control of our weapons but the United States. The only exception I was aware there ever was happened back in the 1970's, when limited control was given over the stockpile of warheads for Pershing II missiles was given to the British by the US Army.

    And the US Army has had no atomic stockpile in decades. And with nukes of their own, it was not like Brittan was a threat in having such control.
     
  16. Csareo

    Csareo New Member

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    *sigh*.......... Every time I lose a debate, Jesus kills a kitten.
     

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