Navy And Media Questions

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Just A Man, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12,297
    Likes Received:
    9,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It ain't about what Trump thought.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think MacArthur went outside the chain of command. He did challenge his commander.
    Another good way to get fired in the military and everywhere else - especially when you are right and your commander is wrong. ;-)
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    After he had sent the same letter up through the chain of command. He used the chain, as he had many times in his career, except this time it was unresponsive.

    And so he became a whistleblower, a man of conscience, so rare in government service.
     
  4. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    26,987
    Likes Received:
    11,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He went outside his chain of command with the letter.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  5. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes I know that. He stepped out because trying to make it work for an emergency situation, the chain of command failed, by his standard.

    That vessels on the sea are incubators for disease because men are living so close and without sunlight is an age old piece of knowledge.

    He went out of the chain of command because a greater good, several goods, were at stake. It was situational ethics. He did the right thing.

    Having 1 less US carrier at sea changes nothing except some statistic being kept.

    He sacrificed his career, so that so that some young sailor might be saved.

    The hashtag that came out of it kinds of describes the current mood of young sailors.

    #EverythingTrumpTouchesDies

    Low morale.
     
  6. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you think he will use that defense at his court martial? ;-)
     
  7. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They wouldn't DARE court martial him
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,320
    Likes Received:
    38,993
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He did get a response and the Navy was working to set up quarters on Guam in which to house 1000 sailors, you think they can just snap their fingers and that appear like magic. Why did he allow all those sailors to stand in a shoulder to shoulder crowd on the hanger deck to cheer him if he and they were so worried?
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,320
    Likes Received:
    38,993
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It wasn't a matter of public health, did you miss the part about this being the Navy, the military? And now the Chinese know we are down one carrier battle group.
     
    Ddyad likes this.
  10. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    26,987
    Likes Received:
    11,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    According to his judgement. However, his superiors have the final word, that is why they are his superiors. A military simply cannot work where subordinates override their superior's decisions.
     
    Dayton3 and Ddyad like this.
  11. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    53,247
    Likes Received:
    25,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Only Trump can save him from facing a court martial.
    He is a sitting duck.
     
  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    President Trump did not pardon a war criminal.
    Nor has President Trump committed war crimes.
    The chain of command actually matters in real life.
     
    Bluesguy and Ddyad like this.
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,310
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The "good of his men" does not excuse or justify every action by an officer.

    Would you be saying the same if an officer ordered thousands of civilians killed "for the good of his men"?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
    Ddyad likes this.
  14. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12,297
    Likes Received:
    9,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't challenge your commander in public, like MacArthur and this captain did.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
    Bluesguy and Dayton3 like this.
  15. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope. And this ain't "any action"
     
  16. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12,297
    Likes Received:
    9,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He didn't like the response, whatever it was, so he went the insubordination route. If he felt so strongly that the higher up were wrong it was his duty to obey or resign. But he got too big for his stripes.
    That might work in civilian life. Military is different. So many posters here have never served in the military and don't understand that there is only one way a deadly fighting machine can function. I can tell you non-military types this -- When given an order by a superior in the Navy the correct response is "Aye aye, sir". That translates to. "I heard, I understand, I will obey".
     
    Bluesguy likes this.
  17. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Looks like Trump is getting ready to weigh in on the side of the Captain

    Watch these Trumpers do an about face
     
  18. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12,297
    Likes Received:
    9,287
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'll believe it when I see it.
     
  19. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,358
    Likes Received:
    11,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He was not a whistleblower by any stretch of the definition. A military person cannot be a whistleblower. He broke a cardinal rule of the military. Otherwise a very fine military officer.
     
    Dayton3 likes this.
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,320
    Likes Received:
    38,993
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the Navy will be more than happen to swipe it under the rug and be done with him.
     
  21. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,358
    Likes Received:
    11,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, he is not, though Trump has expressed sympathy and expressed a desire to not destroy the Captain's person or career.
     
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,320
    Likes Received:
    38,993
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    He was putting off the reporters after their incessant repeat questions about it. Their bosses would server themselves and the public well if they advised their WH reporters you are NOT military experts leave the questioning about this to our reporters who have experience and understanding of the military.
     
    RodB likes this.
  23. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,702
    Likes Received:
    4,339
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Would your opinion change if evidence surfaced that the captain had attempted to raise the issue with the chain of command, was ignored, and then decided to sacrifice his career to save his crew?
     
  24. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    10,702
    Likes Received:
    4,339
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Murdering mooslims = good
    Saving US sailers = bad (if it mean embarrassing Trump)
     
  25. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,358
    Likes Received:
    11,141
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nice sentiment, but will never happen. The media bosses want their reporters to bash Trump whenever and however they can.
     

Share This Page