'Nazi Grandma' sent to jail again for Holocaust denial

Why are you deflecting from your original post? Or did you forget what you wrote?

You wrote that in the Army, you were taught that free speech was acceptable (or something along those lines). Then, I corrected you because in the Army, free speech is anything BUT acceptable. Hence why it's clear to everyone on this forum that you committed stolen valor, thus your point irrelevant. The fact that you committed stolen valor STILL has nothing to do with Germany choosing to rightfully jail the Nazi sympathizer, as it's their own laws.

Once again, your own posts backfire on you. I see you're new here so I'll let you leave without too much disgrace.

- - - Updated - - -

And to add, your obsession with Hitler and the slaughtering of jews is not relevant to your original post

 

Good Grief, Army Soldier, don't get grey hair over Grau's comments! Why not simply answer his question and be done and out??
Grau's question:

If Mrs. / Frau Haverbeck were a US citizen, would you support or oppose laws restricting her freedom to "deny the Holocaust®"?

 

No, I would not support her being in trouble in any single way. Free speech is guaranteed under our constitution.

That's 100% irrelevant to my original post that was REPLIED to, nor the thread. This is about German law.

Good grief, stay relevant.

 

Er, If you think that the absence of discussion of one of the most egregious crimes in modern history over the standard routinely encrypted communications of the German forces is proof it didn't happen, you have not grasped the concept of "logical fallacy" quite yet.

I wonder if nazi loving jew hating holocaust deniers have ever fantasized about "how they'd do it" different. I'll bet that every one of them that does, sure as hell has "don't write anything down" as a pretty hard and fast rule. But hey, the nazis were such upright people they'd never even think of such a nefarious and evil thing in order to accomplish their judenfrei world.

 

"MORE WEASEL WORDS"

I'm familiar with your misuse of the flawed term "logical fallacy" which is more commonly referred to as "Formal" or "Deductive fallacy" in educated circles. Your Holocaustian's Handbook, aka Nizkor etc are replete with these "Formal" or "Deductive fallacies.

Since this Thread is about the incarceration of an elderly woman for rejecting what you claim is:

the veracity of what she rejects is salient to the issue.

My contention is not that "it never happened" but that the event, as advertised & marketed by the wealthy & corrupt Holocaust® Industry, has been grossly exaggerated and that the majority of the Germans neither had a Plan, the intent, or the means to "exterminate 6 Million Jews" while fighting a 3 Front War.

This same contention is also held by Billions(*) of people around the world that are both Jewish & non Jewish whose lives are neither consumed by hate filled Holocaustian Hucksterism nor fantasizing about imaginary

Rather than recite the innumerable other facts supporting my contention that have been laid out in this & other related threads, I'm simply adding this additional fact to the many others debunking Holocaustian lore that you can't refute.

If encrypted communications of the German forces were the ONLY fact debunking Holocaustian lore, it may be viewed by some hate-filled & close minded individuals as a Formal / Deductive fallacy but it's not the only Fact debunking your specious Holocaustian lore:

For Example:

Independent, War Time, Red Cross evaluations made the same assertions that:
"... the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able."[1]

Meanwhile:
"The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”[2]

The topic, however, has to do with Free Speech & the totalitarian practice of incarcerating individuals in alleged " Democracies".

Frau Haverbeck should have the freedom to express her sentiments just as Freedom of Religion permits Holocaustians to make their pilgrimages, construct their Hagiography (St. Weasel, St. Weisenthal etc) & ponder photos of mounds of typhus infected corpses & other bizarre obsessions.

However, the obsessive tenets of deluded & indoctrinated Holocaustians stop at Elder Abuse & the abrogation of Freedom of Speech for others.

Now, Jonsa, why do you suppose that intercepted German radio transmissions make NO mention of: "....a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”[2]






(*) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/
EXCERPT " Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.
Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."CONTINUED


[1] “A Factual Appraisal Of The 'Holocaust' By The Red Cross;
The Jews And The Concentration Camps:No Evidence Of Genocide”
http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=18054

EXCERPT “This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings....

"Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies".

By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable."CONTINUED



[2] “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” by Nicholas Kollerstrom
https://www.scribd.com/document/282721687/Breaking-the-Spell-the-Holocaust-Myth-Reality

EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communi-cations between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, des- perate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED

 

And what do you do? Simply regurgitate the same tired old debunked nonsense from the usual sources. No matter how many times your arguments are torn to shreds, you keep coming back with the same crap, different day.

 

So, are you saying that all the eye witnesses to the Holocaust are liers ?
That My Middle school principal that liberated Auschwitz concentation camp lied about the huge stacks of bodies, most dead some
dying ?
Are all the pictures faked ?

Holocaust denial is one thing, however there were too many witnesses and evidence, even repentant Nazis.

What about the Nuremberg trials ?
Were those based on falsehoods ?
Remember that trial was based on Genocide by the Nazi party.

 

The topic of this thread is primarily about Free Speech & the justification of incarcerating an elderly woman for expressing her views.

Additionally, it would take hours to fully address your questions, I will attempt to briefly address what I can.

1. Re:

The overwhelming cause of German Internment Camp deaths & the mounds of bodies were from typhus, not "Gassing" etc.[1], [2] because Allied Bombing of civilian supply lines prohibited the delivery of badly needed food & medicine.
The Red Cross noted this tragedy here:

“A Factual Appraisal Of The 'Holocaust' By The Red Cross;
The Jews And The Concentration Camps:No Evidence Of Genocide”
http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=18054

EXCERPT “This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings....

"Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies".

By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable."CONTINUED


At Belsen, 14,000 Inmates died of typhus AFTER the British took control of the camp.


2. Re:

AND

Re:

Briefly put, The enormity of the Vengeance / Show Trials ( aka "Nuremberg Trials") rests on the fact that all the Rules of Law went out the window, is also way Off Topic & would take pages to explain their fraudulent nature.

- “The Holocaust legend is built on "confessions" obtained VIA TORTURE; Jewish interrogators beat, tortured, and crushed the testicles of German defendants at war crimes trials”
http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-...2015/06/the-holocaust-legend-is-built-on.html



- “How Britain tortured Nazi PoWs: The horrifying interrogation methods that belie our proud boast that we fought a clean war”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...thods-belie-proud-boast-fought-clean-war.html


- “Huge smoking gun: The fake "confession" of Rudolf Höss to the "mass murder of 2.5 million jews" at Auschwitz -- Obtained via torture by jewish interrogators, and now exposed/admitted as false”
http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-...5/06/huge-smoking-gun-fake-confession-of.html


3. The German Internment Camps were in dismal condition due to shortages of life sustaining supplies while Soviet & Eisenhower's Death Camp, for example, had plentiful supplies but with held them out of genocidal sadism:

“Eisenhower’s Holocaust: His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million(*)Germans!”
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.c...locaust-his-slaughter-of-1-7-million-germans/


4. Re:

No, I'm not saying: "...that all the eye witnesses to the Holocaust are liers sic (liars)" however since claiming to be a "Holocaust® Survivor" has proven to be a quick & easy road to fame & wealth, it has generated innumerable frauds

For Example:

“Allegations of Fake Holocaust Claims Just Keep Growing”
http://forward.com/articles/138473/allegations-of-fake-holocaust-claims-just-keep-gro/#ixzz3NUjH4LEg


“Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust”
http://balder.org/judea/The-Most-Fa...ap-Lampshades-Fertilizer-Mengele-Miracles.php

• Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen

• William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years

• Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis

• Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses

• Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated

• Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood” CONTINUED


- “Holocaust Hoaxer: ‘Lied to Enhance the Truth’”
http://newobserveronline.com/holocaust-hoaxer-lied-enhance-truth/

Please remember that the foundation of what Norman Finkelstein called "The Holocaust Industry" was built on fraudulent "Human Skin lampshades", fake "Human Soap", fake "Shrunken Heads" etc etc and that as long as there is such an enormous, multi-Billion dollar profit motive, there will always be countless fraudulent individuals who, in these many cases, are rarely prosecuted when caught.


I don't deny that countless innocent people died miserably in German & other Internment camps or that there were occasional cruel German Camp Commanders etc.
However, there is no impartial evidence that indicates a Grand German Plan to systematically exterminate millions of innocent people according even to intercepted German radio transmissions [3]

Typhus was the primary executioner and, as the Red Cross notes, Allied bombing of civilian targets prohibited the delivery of life sustaining medicine & supplies as I cited above.

Since I lived, worked, studied in Germany (1970s) & am fluent in German, I had the opportunity to hear a side of the WW 2 narrative not heard by those with that experience.
The German WW 2 Veterans I met were no different than any other Veterans I have known of that era and certainly no worse that many of the victorious Allied War Criminals about whose atrocities we hear nothing due to the repressive laws inhibiting "Denying the Holocaust®"

I certainly don't expect to change the opinions you've formed by hearing only one side of a horrific & complex story but only hope you would consider the fact that the Truth welcomes open & honest discussion.

If the contention that "6 Million Jews were systematically exterminated" were true, why, then is Holocaust® lore so fearful of open discussion & honest examination that it requires such desperate censorship as incarcerating an elderly woman for expressing her sentiments.

I apologize for not addressing all of your questions but would prefer not to run afoul of Forum Rules by going further Off-Topic.


Thanks



[1] “Typhoid fever”
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/typhoid-fever/basics/complications/con-20028553

EXCERPT “Jul 11, 2015 ... Typhoid fever — Comprehensive overview covers symptoms, ... Psychiatric problems, such as delirium, hallucinations and paranoid psychosis.


[2] “TYPHUS”
http://www.whale.to/b/typhus_h.html


[3] “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” by Nicholas Kollerstrom
https://www.scribd.com/document/282721687/Breaking-the-Spell-the-Holocaust-Myth-Reality

EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communi-cations between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED

- - - Updated - - -

The topic of this thread is primarily about Free Speech & the justification of incarcerating an elderly woman for expressing her views.

Additionally, it would take hours to fully address your questions, I will attempt to briefly address what I can.

1. Re:

The overwhelming cause of German Internment Camp deaths & the mounds of bodies were from typhus, not "Gassing" etc.[1], [2] because Allied Bombing of civilian supply lines prohibited the delivery of badly needed food & medicine.
The Red Cross noted this tragedy here:

“A Factual Appraisal Of The 'Holocaust' By The Red Cross;
The Jews And The Concentration Camps:No Evidence Of Genocide”
http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=18054

EXCERPT “This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings....

"Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies".

By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable."CONTINUED


At Belsen, 14,000 Inmates died of typhus AFTER the British took control of the camp.


2. Re:

AND

Re:

Briefly put, The enormity of the Vengeance / Show Trials ( aka "Nuremberg Trials") rests on the fact that all the Rules of Law went out the window, is also way Off Topic & would take pages to explain their fraudulent nature.

- “The Holocaust legend is built on "confessions" obtained VIA TORTURE; Jewish interrogators beat, tortured, and crushed the testicles of German defendants at war crimes trials”
http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/the-holocaust-legend-is-built-on.html



- “How Britain tortured Nazi PoWs: The horrifying interrogation methods that belie our proud boast that we fought a clean war”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223831/How-Britain-tortured-Nazi-PoWs-The-horrifying-interrogation-methods-belie-proud-boast-fought-clean-war.html


- “Huge smoking gun: The fake "confession" of Rudolf Höss to the "mass murder of 2.5 million jews" at Auschwitz -- Obtained via torture by jewish interrogators, and now exposed/admitted as false”
http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.com/2015/06/huge-smoking-gun-fake-confession-of.html


3. The German Internment Camps were in dismal condition due to shortages of life sustaining supplies while Soviet & Eisenhower's Death Camp, for example, had plentiful supplies but with held them out of genocidal sadism:

“Eisenhower’s Holocaust: His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million(*)Germans!”
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/eisenhowers-holocaust-his-slaughter-of-1-7-million-germans/


4. Re:

No, I'm not saying: "...that all the eye witnesses to the Holocaust are liers sic (liars)" however since claiming to be a "Holocaust® Survivor" has proven to be a quick & easy road to fame & wealth, it has generated innumerable frauds

For Example:

“Allegations of Fake Holocaust Claims Just Keep Growing”
http://forward.com/articles/138473/allegations-of-fake-holocaust-claims-just-keep-gro/#ixzz3NUjH4LEg


“Most Outrageous Tales of the Holocaust”
http://balder.org/judea/The-Most-Fantastic-Holocaust-Survivor-Stories-Jewish-Soap-Lampshades-Fertilizer-Mengele-Miracles.php

• Moshe Peer's astounding Holy Shoah tale - Gassed six times by the Nazis and survived!! - Claims people were murdered in gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen

• William Lowenberg's astounding Holocaust tale - Had a magic thirst-quenching pebble, did not drink water, survived on his saliva for 3 years

• Yankel Wiernik's Holotale - Babies torn in half, woman leaps 10 ft barbed-wire fence, guards nail inmates' ears to walls, jews roasted on giant outdoor hibachis

• Testimony from the Eichmann Trial by Leon Wells - Dug up and burned bodies, used bone-grinding machine, ate lunch on top of corpses

• Irene Zisblatt's incredible Holocaust tale- Ate and retrieved diamonds from feces, had 2 post-sterilization children, weighed 40 lbs when liberated

• Rivka Yosselevska's absurd Holocaust fable - Escaped biting jew corpses, witnessed geysers of blood” CONTINUED


- “Holocaust Hoaxer: ‘Lied to Enhance the Truth’”
http://newobserveronline.com/holocaust-hoaxer-lied-enhance-truth/

Please remember that the foundation of what Norman Finkelstein called "The Holocaust Industry" was built on fraudulent "Human Skin lampshades", fake "Human Soap", fake "Shrunken Heads" etc etc and that as long as there is such an enormous, multi-Billion dollar profit motive, there will always be countless fraudulent individuals who, in these many cases, are rarely prosecuted when caught.


I don't deny that countless innocent people died miserably in German & other Internment camps or that there were occasional cruel German Camp Commanders etc.
However, there is no impartial evidence that indicates a Grand German Plan to systematically exterminate millions of innocent people according even to intercepted German radio transmissions [3]

Typhus was the primary executioner and, as the Red Cross notes, Allied bombing of civilian targets prohibited the delivery of life sustaining medicine & supplies as I cited above.

Since I lived, worked, studied in Germany (1970s) & am fluent in German, I had the opportunity to hear a side of the WW 2 narrative not heard by those with that experience.
The German WW 2 Veterans I met were no different than any other Veterans I have known of that era and certainly no worse that many of the victorious Allied War Criminals about whose atrocities we hear nothing due to the repressive laws inhibiting "Denying the Holocaust®"

I certainly don't expect to change the opinions you've formed by hearing only one side of a horrific & complex story but only hope you would consider the fact that the Truth welcomes open & honest discussion.

If the contention that "6 Million Jews were systematically exterminated" were true, why, then is Holocaust® lore so fearful of open discussion & honest examination that it requires such desperate censorship as incarcerating an elderly woman for expressing her sentiments.

I apologize for not addressing all of your questions but would prefer not to run afoul of Forum Rules by going further Off-Topic.


Thanks



[1] “Typhoid fever”
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/typhoid-fever/basics/complications/con-20028553

EXCERPT “Jul 11, 2015 ... Typhoid fever — Comprehensive overview covers symptoms, ... Psychiatric problems, such as delirium, hallucinations and paranoid psychosis.


[2] “TYPHUS”
http://www.whale.to/b/typhus_h.html


[3] “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” by Nicholas Kollerstrom
https://www.scribd.com/document/282721687/Breaking-the-Spell-the-Holocaust-Myth-Reality

EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communi-cations between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED

 

You keep regurgitating the fraudulent assertion that the facts I have posted have been:

But have you have NEVER done so.


Show, just ONE time you're refuted the fact that:

“In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communi-cations between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED [1]



Where your proof that the British DID NOT crack the Enigma Code

OR

That: "The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”[1]


Once you REALLY "debunk" these facts, I'll stop posting them for the benefit of victims of Holocaustian brain washing.



[1] “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” by Nicholas Kollerstrom
https://www.scribd.com/document/282721687/Breaking-the-Spell-the-Holocaust-Myth-Reality

 

In attempting to answer at least some of your questions, I forgot to ask your opinion on the incarceration of Frau Haverbeck.

Would you support "Thought Crime" / "Holocaust® Denial" laws in the US


Additionally, I think that it is noteworthy that literally Billions[1] of people around the world don't believe the standard Holocaust® Narrative & I feel that many who don't believe it claim to believe it but are afraid to speak up out of intimidation & fear of being slandered & persecuted by fanatic Holocaustians





[1] ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

EXCERPT “ Only 54 percent of the world's population has heard of the Holocaust.
54 percent.(*)
This is the most staggering statistic in a new survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of more than 53,000 people in over 100 countries, conducted by First International Resources. But that figure speaks to only those who have heard of it: Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts. Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."
- Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

- people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted"
CONTINUED

 

Scribd is an antisemitic Holocaust denial site Grau. I take it that if your Jew hating sites have any credibility then I can use the USHM and all Jewish and Israeli sites to refute everything you post?

If not then do try to stick with facts rather than crap made, written and distorted by hateful racists.

 

Most Americans can't find France on a map. Using your logic France and it's 70 million people don't exist.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html

 

I have followed her for years, an excellent Historian and researcher; this isn't the first time she has been thrown in jail despite the German Governments no contest to her rock solid research. 11 months is nothing to her, she can do that standing on her head. She has been there before, and she understands the consequences of telling the truth in Zionist/Bolshevik Germany, and Europe. She will be back, and will continue her work to try and wake up the German people before they are totally destroyed.

 

WOW... we are getting some much needed help here! Welcome to the forum!

 

Honest individuals without reading comprehension problems will see the survey for what it says.

Of the Billions of people who HAVE heard of Holocaust®:

"Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust." (see below)

”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...eniers/370870/

EXCERPT “ Only 54 percent of the world's population has heard of the Holocaust.
54 percent.(*)
This is the most staggering statistic in a new survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of more than 53,000 people in over 100 countries, conducted by First International Resources. But that figure speaks to only those who have heard of it: Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts. Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."
- Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

- people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted"
CONTINUED


The fact remains that Billions of people around the world know your version of "The Holocaust®" to be a specious & delusional fraud.

Get someone else to read the entire article to you.......very slowly.

 

So, you too haven't got a canned Nizkor rebuttal for the fact that:

"The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”[1]

Just because someone debunks your profit driven & pity mongering Holocaustian Cult doesn't make them a "Jew Hating, anti Semite"

Your baseless slander says more about you than it does the scholars who debunk your specious Cult.

Please see #14 in the list below:

“A Guide To HASBARA(*)TROLLS”

https://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/a-guide-to-hasbara-trolls/

Hasbara Troll attributes
1. Supreme point of view
2. The Hasbara troll knows best
3. Condescending & Patronising
4. Socialist (Smart and ‘caring&#8217
5. Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
6. Internet experts
7. Narcissistic
8. Provocative
9. Dis-ruptive
10. Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
11. Control freaks
12. Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
13. ‘Moral’ Guardians
14. Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
15. Adept with social networks well trained on IT






[1] [1] “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” by Nicholas Kollerstrom
https://www.scribd.com/document/2827...t-Myth-Reality


EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communi-cations between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED

 

I see you and other Historical Truth Seekers have the situation well under control. Thank you for your welcome.

 

Interesting how Grau is no longer stating that the Red Cross didn't believe that Germany executed a policy of extermination.
If he's wrong about that then what else about his position is incorrect?
Or maybe we should be asking how long he wants to persist with such a skewed and distorted perception?

 

It's just as interesting that you're afraid to ask me directly to which I would simply have answered: "Brevity"

Why Post 2 documents that make the same assertion:


“A Factual Appraisal Of The 'Holocaust' By The Red Cross;
The Jews And The Concentration Camps:No Evidence Of Genocide”
http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=18054

EXCERPT “This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings....

"Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies".

By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable."CONTINUED


AND


“THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE” by Nicholas Kollerstrom
https://www.scribd.com/document/282721687/Breaking-the-Spell-the-Holocaust-Myth-Reality

EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communi-cations between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED


Re:

If you're attempting to "Score Points" via clandestine gossip concerning me, what other Posters do you gossip about in such a cowardly & clandestine manner?


Since you're curious about my "position" but lack the guts to ask me directly. I'll tell you, very briefly.

My contention is not that no one died in the German Internment Camps or that no one was executed but that there was no master Plan for the extermination of innocent Jews, Gypsies etc.
I don't doubt that there were cruel & occasionally murderous German Camp Commanders as was the case especially in Soviet & Eisenhower's Death Camp:

“Eisenhower’s Holocaust: His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million(*)Germans!”
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.c...locaust-his-slaughter-of-1-7-million-germans/


However, to the best of my knowledge, there was no Master Plan for systematic extermination like the Zionist Plan Dalet [1] about which we hear nothing

My assertion that there was no Master Plan for systematic extermination by the Germans seems to be reluctantly conceded by by all credible historians.

For Example:

"“To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”
- Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution&#8221, (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190"

AND

"What became known in high Nazi circles as the Fuehrer Order on the Final Solution apparently was never committed to paper -- at least no copy of it has yet been unearthed in the captured Nazi documents. " William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (New York: Fawcett Crest, 1960), p.1256.


Re:

Why don't "we" show where mine is a: "....skewed and distorted perception"?

However, I imagine "we" want someone else to do that since "we" are apparently unable to do more than engage in sleazy gossip & specious innuendo.





[1] "ISRAEL'S PLAN DALET"; THE GREEN LIGHT FOR ZIONISM'S ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels...estine/5326140

 

Yeah, this is completely appalling. Not having respect for free speech because of the holocaust is much more insulting to the victims of the holocaust than allowing denials about the holocaust to be scrutinized in the open. All nations have their moral blind spots (some more than others). And this is clearly one of theirs.

 

I didn't ask you anything

Complete fabrication.
If you actually read the Red Cross report of 1948 then you would know that Germany led a policy of extermination

Which was already debunked

And again. Kollerstrom was lying out of his backside.

Have you actually read any of the actual documents?
I don't think so
I suggest that you order a copy from national archives at Kew

That's a ridiculous assertion. Its not physically possible to do that on a publicly accesible forum.

I was well aware of your position. There was no need to ask you nor did I do so.

That's an opinion that flies in the face of the evidence

False from start to finish

Wannsee doeesn't mean anything to you?

I've done that

Why are you writing about yourself?

Using globalresearch to back up a claim is just insulting

 

I find it interesting ; your constant use of the "run around strategy" your constant denial of sound research and evidence, while at the same time offering nothing for an effective counter.

 

Well I did actually.

Grau did used to say that the Red Cross didn't find any evidence of a policy of extermination by the German government.
I provided him with the three volume Red Cross report of 1948 which quite clearly states the opposite.
And I have already referred him to the national archives at Kew

Please try and pay attention.

 

You mean this one? http://i1.wp.com/truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/auschwitz.jpg

For an official Government policy of extermination, those are pretty low brow numbers wouldn't you say? The Red Cross says not all of them were Jews. That's a list of all camps inspected.

 

The 1948 Red Cross Report: 1948 Report of International Red Cross Committee Belies Holocaust Allegations Against Nazis


Second Ernst Zundel Trial (198



Reproduced with photos below is Chapter Nine from the booklet, “Did Six Million Really Die?” by Richard E. Harwood. Charles Biedermann, a delegate of the International Committee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross’ International Tracing Service, testified at the second “false news” trial in Canada of Ernst Zündel (February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 198 that in the nineteen instances that the book quoted the Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and Inter Arma Caritas (including the instances in the material below), it did so accurately:
THE JEWS AND THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS: A FACTUAL APPRAISAL BY THE RED CROSS


ICRC logo


There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World War Two and the conditions of Germany’s concentration camps which is almost unique in its honesty and objectivity; the three-volume Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948 [hereinafter, the Report]. This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works: Documents sur l’activité du CICR en faveur des civils detenus dans Les camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War (Geneva, 1947).

The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet, explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in the tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, and herein lies its great value. The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention in order to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and Western Europe by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable to gain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the Convention. The millions of civilian and military internees held in the USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, were completely cut off from any international contact or supervision.


ICRC Headquarters (Geneva, Switzerland)

The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies the legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in concentration camps, (i.e. as enemy aliens). In describing the two categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second type as “[c]civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German, “Schutzhäftlinge&#8221, who were arrested for political or racial motives because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the occupation forces” (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues, “were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned under common law for security reasons.” (P.74). The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food parcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and “from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other camps and prisons” (Vol. 111, p. 7. The ICRC soon established contact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programme which continued to function until the last months of 1945 – letters of thanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.


RED CROSS RECIPIENTS WERE JEWS

The Report states that “…as many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily. From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps” (Vol. III, p. 80) [italics added]. In addition to food, these contained clothing and pharmaceutical supplies. “Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald, Sangerhausen, Sacsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg, Lands berg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravenshbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen, Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and in Central and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians, Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews” (Vol. III, p. 83).

In the course of the war, “The Committee was in a position to transfer and distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty million Swiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organizations throughout the world, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee of New York” (Vol. I, p. 644). This latter organization was permitted by the German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the American entry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vast relief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans but from the tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases of relief food were made in Romania, Hungary and Slovakia.


Coco Schumann (The Theresienstadt "Ghetto Swingers")

The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailed at Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April 1945. This camp, “where there were about 40,000 Jews deported from various countries was a relatively privileged ghetto” (Vol. III, p. 75). According to the Report: “‘The Committee’s delegates were able to visit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusively for Jews and was governed by special conditions. From information gathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experiment by certain leaders of the Reich… These men wished to give the Jews the means of setting up a communal life in a town under their own administration and possessing almost complete autonomy… two delegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. They confirmed the favorable impression gained on the first visit” (Vol. I, p . 642).


Ion Antonescu

The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of Fascist Romania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to 183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation[italics added]. The aid then ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded “in sending anything whatsoever to Russia” (Vol. II, p. 62). The same situation applied to many of the German camps after their “liberation” by the Russians.

The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail from Auschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of the internees were evacuated westward [italics added]. But the efforts of the Red Cross to send relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet control were futile [italics added]. However, food parcels continued to be sent to former Auschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald and Oranienburg.



NO EVIDENCE OF GENOCIDE


SS General Ernst Kaltenbrunner

One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in the camps toward the end of the war. Says the Report: “In the chaotic condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims” [italics added]. Itself alarmed by this situation, the German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945… In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate was authorized to stay in each camp…” (Vol. III, p. 83) [italics added].


Nazi labor camp starvation victims of Allied bombing

Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against “the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies” (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 7 [italics added]. By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable.

In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis-occupied Europe of a deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews [italics added]. In all its 1,600 pages the Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber [italics added]. It admits that Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigors and privations, but its complete silence on the subject of planned extermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend [italics added].


Typhus - the leading cause of death in Nazi labor camps

Like the Vatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross found itself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocide which had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortality rate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewish doctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the eastern front, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945 broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff).

Incidentally, it is frequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gas chambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Report makes nonsense of this allegation: “Not only the washing places, but installations for baths, showers, and laundry were inspected by the delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged” (Vol.III, p. 594).


NOT ALL WERE INTERNED

Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian Population) deals with the “aid given to the Jewish section of the free population,” and this chapter makes it quite plain that by no means all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, but remained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the free civilian population. This conflicts directly with the “thoroughness” of the supposed “extermination program”, and with the claim in the forged Höss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing “every single Jew he could lay his hands on.”


SS Captain Dieter Wisliceny

In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann’s assistant Dieter Wisliceny was in charge, the Report states that “A large proportion of the Jewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain periods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for Jews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained in Slovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of August 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. While it is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about the internment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in camps where the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where the internees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to those of the free labor market” (Vol. I, p. 646).


Some estimate up to 150,000 Jewish Nazi soldiers served the Third Reich during WWII

Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey. Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupied territories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of the Polish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. “The Jews from Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to the United States were held to be American citizens by the German occupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity of about three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates of South American countries” (Vol.I, p. 645). As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp in southern France for American aliens.

The emigration of European Jews from Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the German authorities. “Until March 1944,” says the Red Cross Report: “Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave Hungary” (Vol. I, p. 64. Even after the replacement of the Horthy Government in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the Soviet Union) with a government more dependent on German authority, the emigration of Jews continued. The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the United States “to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews from Hungary,” and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a message stating that “The Government of the United States… now specifically repeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for the care of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed to leave” (Vol. I, p . 649).

Sorry, I don't see a problem here, the Germans did the best they could considering the circumstances.