NCA raid suspected gun factory in south London

A few points. Firstly no I shouldn't have 'stopped there' because that would have just reinforced an existing prejudice i.e that the imminent risk of personal injury or or death is so high/imminent that the only way for citizens to protect themselves is to carry a firearm. This is simply incorrect especially as the average has more chance of being harmed by a family member in their own home than they do in public. Those are the facts as is the fact far more people end up the victim of a firearm than being 'saved' by one. Which is not to say it doesn't happen just that its extremely unlikely. Using that logic people who use this as a excuse to carry a firearm should also carry an umbrella at all times in case it rains!

Beyond note the highlighted word in the article above 'might'. There is no evidence of a rising rate of gun violence. What is happening is that the Police in major states have, in recent years formed new task forces targeting organized crime. These taskforces have new powers and expertise that has resulted in a lot of recent gangland killings being solved and the seizing more illegal firearms and the laying more charges as a result. Whats more any criminal caught is possession of a firearm is usually charged with multiple offenses hence the spike in the number of charges. This is done so that the courts have options for conviction if one charge is deemed inappropriate or has insufficient evidence to back it up.

What is NOT happening is any significant increase in firearm deaths and those deaths are almost entirely concentrated inside organized crime. Criminals killing other criminals. Deaths by firearm in the civilian population on the other had is very rare compared to other forms of murder or suicide. The firearm death rate (ALL causes including suicide) in Australia in 2019 the most recent year I could find stats for is .88 per 100,000 people. In the US it was 12.21 that same year. Obviously we are not the ones with the problem.

I hope that clarifies things.

 

Organising and watching animals tear apart other animals for fun is absolutely vile. Disgusting

 

You have been disinformed. Here is a partial correction::

“Correction: January 4, 2018
An earlier version of this article mischaracterized the crime rate in Victoria State over the past five years. It has risen nearly 20 percent, not fallen nearly 20 percent.”

“Peter Dutton, the home affairs minister, took to a Sydney radio station that same day and said that “political correctness” had rendered leaders in Victoria blind to the crime wave around them. “We just need to call it for what it is: African gang violence,” he said. “The reality is, people are scared to go out to restaurants at nighttime because they’re followed home by these gangs.”
NEW YORK TIMES, Australia’s Prime Minister Warns of ‘Gang Violence’ by African Migrants, By Adam Baidawi, Jan. 4, 2018.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/world/australia/gang-violence-melbourne-turnbull.html

Of course, it is important to remember that Australia is a progressive white racist police state which routinely fudges its crime data.
Violent criminals in Australia tend to be white and well armed.

 

Is National Geographic a vile organization?

 

Yeh, after passing the NFA they started coding many hangings and gun suicides as accidental deaths instead of suicides. I’m a bit skeptical of their statistics.

 

Victoria is one state and because our murder rates as a % of the population are so low they tend to fluctuate on a year to year basis. From the Victorian Crime statistics agency:

Statewide figures (year ending Dec 22)

• The number of criminal incidents recorded by Victoria Police in the year to 31 December 2022 was 349,852, up 0.4% from 348,440 incidents recorded in the same period last year.
• The number of offences recorded by Victoria Police in the year to 31 December 2022 was 483,441. This is up 1.2% from 477,789 offences recorded in the same period last year.
• Alleged offender incidents increased 7.0% to 162,750 in the year to 31 December 2022, up from 152,139.
• Victim reports increased in the year to 31 December 2022, up 1.9% (5,065) to 270,519 victim reports.
• Family incidents increased in the year to 31 December 2022, up 1.3% from 91,139 to 92,296.
• Alleged offender incidents with an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander status increased 14.4% (1,836) to 14,548 in the year to 31 December 2022.
• In the year to 31 December 2022 the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander status of those involved in Family incident increased for Affected family members (up 0.8% to 5,081) while Other parties decreased (down 1.5% to 6,119).

I couldn't find the direct figures for 2022 but in 21 there were 84 murders recorded. That's in a State with a population of more than 6.7 million people! So even a small increase in numbers (say to 94) is going to look statistically significant when in reality it's just a more or less a random jump (the same as any one off random decrease would be). Whats important is the trend as a% of the population. So come back to me when that trend confirms the alarmist reporting you quoted.

Beyond that. "Violent criminals in Australia tend to be white and well armed." Really?

Have you met any violent Australian criminals? Because I have and I assure you they come in all shades. To quote one report from 2014 (bestI could find on short notice) ' According to a Crime Commission report on outlaw motorcycle gangs, where they were once overwhelmingly Caucasian, they now increasingly include people from non-Caucasian backgrounds. Organised crime has been considered a problem in Australia for many years. Fifteen years ago, Asian crime gangs were the most feared, but the trend switched to Middle Eastern and Lebanese gangs being targeted as a problem.'

So go ahead PROVE your claim claim above or retract it.

 

Does National Geographic collect a group of animals and set them onto another animal to tear it apart for fun? Absolutely disgusting that you are attempting to defend this "fun'.

 

Victoria is one state and because our murder rates as a % of the population are so low they tend to fluctuate on a year to year basis. From the Victorian Crime statistics agency:

Statewide figures (year ending Dec 22)

• The number of criminal incidents recorded by Victoria Police in the year to 31 December 2022 was 349,852, up 0.4% from 348,440 incidents recorded in the same period last year.
• The number of offences recorded by Victoria Police in the year to 31 December 2022 was 483,441. This is up 1.2% from 477,789 offences recorded in the same period last year.
• Alleged offender incidents increased 7.0% to 162,750 in the year to 31 December 2022, up from 152,139.
• Victim reports increased in the year to 31 December 2022, up 1.9% (5,065) to 270,519 victim reports.
• Family incidents increased in the year to 31 December 2022, up 1.3% from 91,139 to 92,296.
• Alleged offender incidents with an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander status increased 14.4% (1,836) to 14,548 in the year to 31 December 2022.
• In the year to 31 December 2022 the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander status of those involved in Family incident increased for Affected family members (up 0.8% to 5,081) while Other parties decreased (down 1.5% to 6,119).

I couldn't find the direct figures for 2022 but in 21 there were 84 murders recorded. That's in a State with a population of more than 6.7 million people! So even a small increase in numbers (say to 94) is going to look statistically significant when in reality it's just a more or less a random jump (the same as any one off random decrease would be). Whats important is the trend as a% of the population. So come back to me when that trend confirms the alarmist reporting you quoted.

Beyond that. "Violent criminals in Australia tend to be white and well armed." Really?

Have you met any violent Australian criminals? Because I have and I assure you they come in all shades. To quote one report from 2014 (bestI could find on short notice) ' According to a Crime Commission report on outlaw motorcycle gangs, where they were once overwhelmingly Caucasian, they now increasingly include people from non-Caucasian backgrounds. Organised crime has been considered a problem in Australia for many years. Fifteen years ago, Asian crime gangs were the most feared, but the trend switched to Middle Eastern and Lebanese gangs being targeted as a problem.'

So go ahead PROVE your claim claim above or retract it.

 

I think it's more disgusting and vile to rip babies out of the womb...
But I reckon that's just my own peculiarities...

 

When is that being done for "fun"

 

Many people enjoy hunting. Some use firearms, some bows, some dogs. Apparently many people enjoy watching animals kill each other. National Geographic has been profiting from marketing photos and video of animals ripping each other apart for decades.

You posted this:

Your king is vile. He vehemently opposed the rules limiting numbers of dogs that can be used to hunt fox. He loved setting packs of dogs on fox. Same with the majority of your vile Royal family. Here’s a statement from him.

It is still legal to send dogs on fox above and below ground in the UK if the fox is a nuisance. Wild hogs are not just a nuisance but a scourge on the ag economy and the ecosystems in the southern US.

To be clear, hunting fox with dogs purely for sport is NOT my cup of tea. But hunting hogs in the south or other destructive pests like problem coyote in my neck of the woods with dogs is certainly an acceptable practice.

I think many forget hunting is part of what makes us human. Our increasing efficiency at acquisition of calories and nutrition is what brought you and I to this point where we can have this conversation across the pond. Hunting by setting one animal on another is in our DNA whether we like it or not. In the not very distant past the practice ensured survival and the ability to thrive/evolve as a species. I’m not sure where the lines are between fun, relief, satisfaction, sense of well being etc. in relation to hunting. My father and grandfather both hunted for food to survive. That’s not that long ago. When one needs food (as our ancestors have since before they were human) there is a natural feeling of elation and satisfaction when a kill is made. Why? Because it means you will eat and survive. It means your family will eat and survive and your genetics will be able to persist. That feeling of elation and relief at the point of a kill is a natural emotion put in humans and retained through natural selection.

In the very recent past, division of labor and annihilation of apex predators has allowed the survival of more folks who lack the natural inclination to take prey. In the past very few such folk could be supported by a tribal or other society. Now much higher percentages can exist. But the “hunting” traits that allowed survival and evolution of the human species are still manifest in a large percentage of the population and will be for eons.

All the above applies to dogs as well. And raptors used in falconry. We are all animals that owe our existence and continued existence to genetic traits that result in hunting being “fun” for lack of a better all inclusive term (elation, relief, satisfaction, well being).

I guess I’m a little less vile than your king because I don’t really support running dogs on foxes PURELY for sport. But I’ll admit a bit of satisfaction every time I set a dog on an opossum and the opossum ceases to be a threat to my equines. I’ll admit a feeling of relief and well being when my guard dogs that I intentionally raised/purchased and position strategically to eff up coyotes do their job. I’ll admit it was a lot of fun when I had a rabbit infestation one year so bad I was having to shoot them from around the garden and I happened to meet some falconers from around the world at trade show. It was fascinating, rewarding, relieving, FUN to watch raptors solve a problem in short order my eyes and other senses aren’t well suited to address. I still derive enjoyment from practicing “passive” falconry from a tractor. Destructive digging pests are eliminated from fields and the red tailed hawks are “enjoying” doing what evolution built them to do. Is it more vile to intentionally modify how you work a field with a tractor and implement to facilitate passive falconry or more vile to put poison down the varmint’s hole?

And remember, people are still setting animals on each other to help feed you. It’s why hogs are hunted in so many ways (whatever works!) in the south. Because if they aren’t hunted hard everyone is affected economically, not just ag producers directly. And humans see hunting as “fun” because it’s a biological reality that made your life possible.

 

Britain and Australia have discovered that reducing access to guns causes mass shootings to just stop. Is that not a good thing?

 

Our hamstrung police are very inclined to underreport crime. They are human beings under pressure.

 

Wake up.

THE SYDNEY MORNING HERALD, Police fudge figures to improve rates of solved crimes: report, AAP, March 11, 2009 — 12.23pm.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/pol...es-of-solved-crimes-report-20090311-8urq.html

 

You didn't answer the question

You continue supporting this vile statement
"I don't think that UK fella there realizes that we put dogs on hogs for fun."
Disgusting

 

Maybe.

I know that when I'm hunting deer i am having fun. The moment I pull the trigger is the climax, after that is the fall. Then I get to eat and rise again. So the story of hunting follows the story of life, rise- fall- rise.

But when I'm swatting a mosquito, I don't exactly like the hunt whatsoever. It's the killing part of the story that is the climax, fall-rise...

....only to fall again.- The story of death.

 

NG films in places where wildlife is intentionally managed to connect prey with predators. I believe NG is one of the most “ethical” for not “staging” kills though. But the fact remains they are serving a HUGE demographic that wants to watch animals tear each other apart. That was what the post I responded to addressed. Here it is again.

I showed you using facts of evolutionary biology why people want to hunt and enjoy watching animals hunt.

You later moved the goalposts a bit. But I’m very supportive of those who think hog hunting is FUN. Whether they enjoy using dogs, guns, helicopters, traps, spears, or blades. If those folks didn’t think it was FUN we would have huge ecological and economical problems. That’s just a fact. You owe people who do your killing for you a debt of gratitude. Instead you call them vile.

I support your right to do so. I just want everyone to understand hunting hogs is necessary and people are genetically and epigenetically hard wired to have FUN hunting with and without dogs. It’s perfectly natural as well as necessary to your evolution and survival. Be thankful today’s society allows your existence.

Is your king vile and disgusting?

 

Some people are so far removed from the biological facts of life they just can’t understand. They hire their killing done for them and then call the hitter vile.

 

Yup. Like I stated elsewhere in this thread there is an amount of honor in harvesting your own meat- the principle behind that honor being honesty.

 

Mass shootings didn't "just stop".

There have been four mass shootings since the gun ban in Australia.

The UK has experienced mass shootings in 2010, 2012 and 2021. Not to mention the bombings, vehicle and stabbing attacks.

 

It's the fact that Fatback gets enjoyment out of setting up and watching a pack of animals tear up another animal and describes it as fun. No mention of hunting for food

 

I did not move any goal posts. Setting up a collection of animals to tear up another animal for fun is vile. You are the one who is trying to justify it assuming that he is doing it for other reasons other than fun. For some reason you think I would defend the king and his love of fox hunting with a hundred dogs chasing one fox with these foxes bred purely to be hunted and torn apart. Disgusting

 

The same guy who doesn't clear a rifle and points it at the jury with his finger on the trigger. The same guy who hid exculpatory evidence from the Court. The same guy who questioned the defendant's post arrest silence and had to get taken down several pegs in public by the judge.

 

Honestly? Yeah. They send their documentarians out to make them money watching human beings starve to death or die of disease or dehydration.
And they don't help the people they profit off of.

 

Yup, that guy.

The persecutor.

I mean procecutor. Freudian slip...