Nearly HALF of France and Germany believe Islam clashes with society values – shock poll

It’s the project of Man’s existence. And it’s why, in my judgment, based on all the evidence before me, rational men do not need to fear Muslims, anymore than they need to fear Christians.But they do need to defeat all mysticism with a reason

 

just as we are tolerant of the mass rape of junior soccer players by white pedos soccer coaches

 

Brunei state brought back death penalty for gay people, there is a dozen of country which sentence apostasy by death. The quran/hadith used by muslims in Europe is the same than in the rest of the world.
Anyway, Europe loose more and more of its identity not only because of mass migration, the increasing number of muslims but too because of other factors, like european youth being americanized.
The average european became weak, scornable and loss any identity.

 

That's the result of culture of weakness, people aren't afraid anymore by the justice.

 

because there is no justice, just greed.

 

when they abandoned christianity they became weak again

 

That, but you don't need christianity for that, christianity teach people to be beaten without reacting or to "love your ennemies". Pagan morality is more natural, if you have ennemies, you hate them and you fight them, if you have ennemies, you train to become stronger and defeat them, you don't pray them or forgive them.

 

This is a horrible survey - really bad. As is the case with surveys - it is how you ask the question.

The question should have been - Does Islamist ideology conflict with their countries values = belief that religious belief should be forced on other human beings through physical violence (Law)

If this was how the question was worded - what do you think the percentage would be ? Would you have a problem with a close relative was an "Islamist" - a piece of human garbage.

This is the problem with this conversation in general. It does not focus on the true evil within Islam = the Islamist. It is fallacious to claim that all Muslims are Islamist - while a high percentage is - not all are. Not all Muslims believe in Sharia.

"Why is this wrong/evil" ? Why is this "NOT" a religious test ? as opposed the content of your post which is a religious test.

Western Democracy was founded on Respect for Individual Liberty - The "Statue of Liberty" came from France.

The Islamist "Hates' individual liberty. The Islamist has no respect for individual liberty. One of the core ideologies of the Islamist is that they believe thy are justified in forcing religious belief on others through Law - physical violence.

I don't care what religion, creed, race, or color a person is. If they want to force me to act in accordance with their beliefs -on the basis of physical violence .. this is a piece of human garbage.

If you don't like alcohol - don't drink. If there is a referendum tomorrow on banning alcohol = stopping people from drinking using physical violence (Law) the question of that referendum is not "Do you like Alcohol". The question of the referendum is "Do you have sufficient legitimate justification to force your belief on others through physical violence"

This is the difference between 1) having a belief and 2) forcing that belief on others through physical violence.

"I don't like it" is not legitimate justification .. "Do unto others" - The Golden Rule - if you don't want others forcing their beliefs on you through physical violence - then don't do this to others

Belief in freedom is not belief in freedom - only for things one agrees with - everyone believe in that. Belief in freedom is belief in freedom for things you don't like - things you don't agree with.

"God doesn't like it" is not legitimate justification ... Prove that God does not like Alcohol .. and good luck with that.

The Islamist is human garbage .. as is anyone who shares the elements of this ideology = forcing ones beliefs on others through physical violence "Law" - on the basis of justification that they themselves do not agree with = The Islamist would not like Christians or atheists forcing their beliefs on them .. how then can they claim to not be hypocrites.

Hypocrisy is not a valid justification for law.

Thus ends my rant.

 

christ also states Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

Yes, but read the whole chapter. https://biblehub.com/niv/matthew/10.htm
It's more like "go being persecuted".
But christianity could never do anything about changing human nature, that's why christian nations had so much violence, because it's in mankind nature.

 

It's ok to be a minority thinker. Innovation depends on that. Fools and genius often reside in the same plane.

 

As this is a thread about the interaction between cultures of different values, and not a discussion on evolution, metaphysics, or epistemology, I will refrain from commenting, except to say, read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

Nazi Germany existed because Kant soiled man's mind with altruistic Polonium. What defeated her was the men of the mind, not the social demagogues of populism, i.e., American productive ingenuity, not social convention.

Aristotle and John Locke are the intellectual foundation of America, a creation of the Enlightenment thinkers--a nation brought into existence, not by brute force, nor social mores, but by men of reason. And though American founding political principles are based upon the nature of man, existence, and man's place in it, America is Man's creation, not nature's. And yes the founding fathers studied all forms of government to choose the best one to protect man's rights, not because of any established social norm, but to bring something new into existence, a nation based upon individual liberty.

In essence, the American Revolution was not fought to protect a social norm, but to free itself from the social norm and create a new set of ethos and mores. One which placed the rights of man over social mores. One which created a constitution--a constitution which is not a document of rules for free men, but a restraining order on the powers of government, a restraining order placed upon on those governing by those who are being governed. Something that had never been done before in human history.

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As to the concept of society, it is merely a reflection of the individual choices of its members, not a conscious entity with powers to act on its own.

With regards to a clash of cultural mores and conflicting values, the reasoning mind has nothing to fear from the mystical mind, unless the mystical mind grabs control of the government. In America, that means we have much more to fear from the Conservative Right, then the everyday Muslims who come here and build their mosques and prostrate themselves before a deity they call Allah.

And lastly, if I understand you properly, you are postulating that it is society, or the tribe, or the group, or the collective that determines man's values, characteristics, and fate. With this, I disagree--a man's choices and fate are his to choose, not society's to determine.

 

Hell, that sounds like Christianity just a few decades ago.

As for Europe losing its identity to American culture--well, if true, amen to that. As to the Muslims, if Europe truly embraced the American ideal of individual liberty, and truly was Americanized, it couldn't be destroyed by witch doctors, shamans, or Ayatollahs. What makes Europe worthy of scorn is its old-world traditions, culture, and values, not its mass immigration of Muslims.

 

Man is a reasoning being, not a mystic brute.

Ayn Rand: "The key to what you so recklessly call “human nature,” the open secret you live with, yet dread to name, is the fact that man is a being of volitional consciousness."--http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/man.html

 

Europe is going to hell quickly. I am surprised of the low numbers in that poll.

The muslims are not adapting, there are many articles and videos out there showing how they are not hiding the fact they expect to take over. They have patience. They are giving birth to as many children as they can (per their own information). they are not hiding anything.

I am glad we have the travel ban in the US but we need to expand and also stop our own immigration issue at the southern border.

 

I've read it.

Thank you your comments. It's been illuminating.

 

I'm shocked it's not far more.

 

Okay. Find your nearest flaming queer, dye his hair rainbow stripes, apply a little eye shadow to him, and send him sashaying into a ME town wearing a t-shirt depicting Mohammed. Let us know how you get on.

 

Unfortunately, it is. That's why various countries have been hire foreigners to work as nurses, caregivers, etc.

 

As if we needed some illeterate people to take care of jobs which need some formation when we have already a lot of unemployment.

Migrants are just the arm of billionnaires which use them to lower working price. If there is much more worker than job proposal, then working price would go lower.

 

Yes, but muslims are not unevolved christian. The fate of the world isn't to become a liberal, and people which doesn't agree with liberalism aren't people which are "late". A muslim isn't someone which come from the middle age, it's someone which has a different ideology.
Brunei is just applying the shariah law as it's asked in the quran and hadith.
Our tradition and cultures is what make us European, it's Beethoven, Rameau, if it's not that, better nuke ourselves because we're not worthy of existence.

 

The same could be said of American Christians once upon a time, and in some sects, still today.

I am not defending Islamic theocracies, I’d nuke them. I’m defending an idividual’s right to migrate, no matter what their religion is.

 

To bad you don't defend the right to live for people murdered by migrants.

 

Migration suits islam as any islamic cleric will tell you that the goal of islam is to rule the world and spread sharia law throughout the world....

 

Being an immigrant no more makes you a murderer than being born.

If you wish to defeat Islam, use reason, not xenophobia.

The best way to defeat any idea is with better ideas.

There are Christians in America who think Christian values created this country and ought to be the foundation of our justice system. They are just as backwards as the Muslims who wish the world to live under Sharia law. The answer is not to punish these individuals for their faith, but to enter the arena of ideas and defeat with reason.