Nearly HALF of France and Germany believe Islam clashes with society values – shock poll

One does not defeat a rabid animal by means of reason. One does not treat cancer by means of reason.

 

One does if the one is operating in the arena of ideas and not as a surgeon in a operating room.

Metaphors are fine, but not a substitute for metaphysics.

 

but you can prevent cancer by living healthy, clearly we must be sick then...

 

What exactly are European values? Is it the liberal values which many Europeans oppose, and also what are Muslim values? Are they those of the jihadists and sharia law? Or is it the moderate values of Syria under Assad?

Extremes are always destructive and harmful, and when imposed on others they are bound to cause a counter reaction. This doesn't mean the Europeans do not have a right to retain their heritage and customs. Of course they do, but so do the Arabs, so we shouldn't shove Western liberal democracy down their throats.

Anyway if the Europeans did not want the Muslims, they shouldn't have helped destroy the Middle East. But then again, foresight has never been a Western attribute. A perfect example is WWI and WWII. The world sleepwalked into WWI and it set the world on fire for a century. Well, we're doing it again.

 

The Middle East is a mess no matter how much or how little Europe (and we) get involved in it. Maybe if there had never been western colonialism there a century and more ago, then maybe it would not be such a mess today. Maybe! But with hardline religious traditions coupled with balkanized political structures and old feuds, and then big powers like us and Russia (and the USSR earlier) in the mix, there was bound to be trouble. All we can do is what we are doing, which is try to help people there and contain and put down violence to the best of our ability, for the sake of the people in the region and to protect ourselves and the rest of the world from terroristic violence stemming from that turmoil, as we saw on 9/11 and have seen on many other occasions before and since.

 

We can influence nations and we have, or nations wouldn't have the humane laws they do today. But much is based on the economic situation in each nations. For example, if we don't like children working in factories and its their only means of survival, then why not help raise their standard of living rather than boycotting them?

There is an inherent problem in Islam, in that they never developed a business class. I think they copied the mentality of the European nobility that commerce was below them - maybe from the crusaders. All business' in the Ottoman Empire was conducted by the 'dhimmis'; Armenians, Greeks and Jews.

When Britain took over Egypt and put in their own laws, Greeks, Italians and French ran into Alexandria and Cairo en masse. They prospered, yet the Muslims remained dirt poor and it created resentment. Nassar and the succeeding leaders put an end to that by kicking out all foreigners and confiscating their property. The Arab mentality was such, that they felt Nassar had given them back their pride. Needless to say the wealthy European neighborhoods in Cairo turned into slums ten years later.

Today the Muslims are more educated especially in the technical fields, but what hasn't changed is the embedded resentments.

 

Jesus said that because Christianity will cause conflicts even within families. Not because they want to, but because of the differing value system. People distrust that which they can't understand. This goes for the friction between different Christian sects as well. The friction has more to do with the cultural difference because of the traditions they were raised in, than with doctrine itself.

 

There is not a Christian sect anywhere in the First World which would do more than possibly verbally abuse the flaming queer. If that. There is NO comparison.

Meantime, no one has a RIGHT to migrate. What a bizarre idea.

 

The hubris and vanity of the insulated First Worlder, who thinks their ideas are so seductively wonderful that no one can possibly resist them. Well, everyone on planet earth already knows what those ideas are, and 1.8 billion people say 'no thanks'.

 

You are ALONE in that arena. Do you understand that?

The people in question are not lacking the benefit of your lofty insight, like small children waiting for the adults to explain things to them. They know it all too well, and they reject it.

 

yeshua was a jew not a christian

 

The problem with Nation building is that it ends up biting us in the rear.

For example, many of the Nations we built up are now Nations we have large trade deficits with, which has hurt our economy and the livelihood of our workers.

I do get your point about the culture of other Nations and how it views labor contributions from all age groups. I am not unsympathetic to the difficult situations some countries put their children in. I'm just more apt to let those countries determine for themselves how to deal with it, or not.

 

MEGA

 

This is not a question you give to the general public, without first making them read the Sunnah,
Or at least one book of it.

Then they will have an idea what Islamic values are, and not rely on listening to someone else tells them about it.

 

Christian radicals are annoying

Muslim radicals kill people.

 

It has nothing to do with a lack of literacy but population aging. When various towns and cities end up with populations where the average age is above 50, then don't expect them not to hire young outsiders to take care of them. Which is exactly what's been taking place.

 

A lot of Migrants don't work because they struggle to integrate and won't take care of old white people they don't like.
You can't compensate a poor natality with migration.

 

One either uses reason in evryth

Really.

Man is not free to choose where he wishes to live and prosper? Hmmm. Disagree. Perhaps in today’s immoral politics, this is true, but certainly not as moral premise. Of course any individual has the right to choose whatever he wishes concerning any facet of his life, within reason.

 

And they are paying the price. The Western values of reason, creativity, productivity, individual rights, and science, are precisely the values every nation, tribe, culture, individual needs to follow and practice.

To state it simply, to live is to be, to be is to think, to thinks is to make one’s life filled with happiness and prosperity.

 

So, who's going to take care of those who are aging?

 

Well, there is already a crisis, but nobody will take care of them. You can't just compensate a poor natality with mass migration. If you're rich enough, you will be able to pay a good retirement home, otherwise you will die in your own poor. Old people are more and more considered as burden in a society which worship money, and if I doubt they will straight murder old people, they will just neglect them to death.

 

Reason, as an absolute; force only in sel-defense.

 

I wouldn’t call either radicals, I’d called them fundamentalist. And so at the moment, in regards to physical attacks, you are correct. However, if speaking about political power, specifically in America, the Christian fundamentalist who have taken over the Republican Party are far more dangerous to liberty than any American Muslim.

individuals are free to choose which ever beliefs they hold to be true.

 

If you’re that worried about old people, You certainly are free to help them. As for me, I’ll take care of me, thank you very much. Don’t need and don’t want...slaves.

But what caring for the elderly has to do the assimilation of Muslims into Western civilaztion...?

 

One does not need to read the Sunnah to understand that an ideology that justifies forcing personal religious beliefs on others through physical violence (Law) is Evil.