Need the Christian perspective on hypocracy.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by robini123, May 9, 2019.

  1. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I have a Christian friend who has been a Christian for decades who said that he is one of the most hypocritical people that I can know. This struck me as an odd thing to say for the following reasons. If a function of religion is to elevate one above their baser nature, then it stands to reason that one who makes a concerted effort to do so should not be able to claim after decades in the Church to be one of the most hypocritical people that I can know.

    I understand that we are all hypocrites but from my personal experience such negative aspects of our baser nature can be mitigated and in some cases overcome, although through no small effort. I argue that the longer one is in a religion the less hypocritical they should become and if not then they are not diligently making a concerted effort to mitigate or overcome the more negative aspects of their baser nature, aka not walking the talk.

    For those who will say "we are all sinners", I agree but see that argument as a deflection. Saying that we are all sinners does nothing to mitigate or negate the sin. Christianity is judged by the actions of its practitioners and when a practitioner says that they are one of the most hypocritical people that I can know then from my POV Christianity fails to curb baser nature or the practitioner is not diligent in adhering to the teachings of Christ.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When I was a practicing Catholic, the "we are all sinners" bumper sticker always seemed a bit contrived...and a jarring insult to the GOD I "worshiped."

    A sin, after all, is a human thought, word, or deed that offends the GOD.

    If every human offends the GOD...something is wrong...

    ...with the GOD.

    Now that I am not under the constraints of religion, my reaction would be a variation on, "The god ought to lighten up a bit."

    "Stop being offended by so much," seems appropriate. "Why are your knickers in such a bunch all the time?"

    That's my initial thought.
     
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  3. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Donor

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    I had to re-read your opening sentence several times... because imo one of the most common hypocrisies of religious adherents is their denial of hypocrisy.

    Imo religious belief can serve many practical functions: It can operate like a club, it can relieve anxiety, it can offer some feeling of certainty, it may offer a sense of purpose, and the feeling of being “holier than thou” has an undeniable attraction.

    realistically, no one likes the process of changing for the better...whether it is dieting, excising, quitting smoking, or remembering to put down the toilet seat.... people mostly like being as they are, with what ever faults they may have. Finding what is wrong with other people is much preferred to removing the log in our own eye. And, what ever religion says about things like turning the other cheek and not judging others, etc... the fact is that religion’s most preferred function is to support self righteousness and judging others
     
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  4. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Donor

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    My mom is very devout. As such she would firmly support the idea that we are all sinners. Well, she supported the idea in theory.... but god help you if you suggested any specific area that could use some improvement

     
  5. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Family and friends require a different approach than strangers where religion is concerned. In order to maintain relations it is necessary for a certain level of patience and understanding to be employed whereas stating honest opinion to strangers is expected if not appreciated. I have found complete silence and avoidance to be an effective technique with people I must treat with delicacy to keep the peace as the deeply religious are very sensitive to critique or discussion.
     
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  6. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    I don't suppose you'd care to explain how exactly the conclusion follows from the premises.
     
  7. tealwings

    tealwings Well-Known Member

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    As it is been said, we're all hypocritical in some way.
    Would you rather he act all pious & arrogant? Maybe this is one behavior he struggles with and freely admits it.
    Idk, what were you discussing when he said this, or does he go around saying this to everyone? lol
     
  8. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    To me you can't be a hypocrite unless you have higher values and higher aspirations than you are able to live up to or obtain. So hypocrisy in that respect can be seen as a good thing.

    Like the saying goes

    "A saint is a sinner who kept trying".
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're conflating the person themself with the person's actions.

    Yes, your second statement is correct, that's a major tenet of Christianity.

    Something is wrong, ergo the need for a Savior.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  10. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not particularly.

    If what I said had been, "2 + 2 = 4 in base 10"...and you asked for an explanation, I would feel that same way.

    Supposedly the god "made" humans (in its own image, yet)...

    ...but every one of them "offends" it by being human.

    If you do not see that as a problem with the god...I doubt I can explain it in a way you could grasp it. Sames goes with the 2 + 2 = 4 in base 10.
     
  11. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To save us from whom?

    If the god would stop being "offended" by humans being humans...there would be no sin.
     
  12. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    But not for anything like the same reason.
    Actually, sin is dehumanizing.
    To be sure, explanations that rest on misconceptions such as that noted above are, for the commonsensically inclined, impossible to grasp.
     
  13. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually...for EXACTLY the same reason.


    The notion of a god being offended by what puny humans do...is dehumanizing.

    But we are discussing the Christian perspective.



    The only misconception I see is your misconception that there is a misconception in what wrote.

    If you want to discuss it, we can. But if you cannot follow how my conclusion stems from the premises I offered, I doubt you will be able to see much.
     
  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    The majority of sins involving hurting other people. It offends God when you hurt other people.
     
  15. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice try. No cigar.

    The VAST majority of "sin" involves what one does with one's dick...who one bangs...how one bangs someone else...what erotic thoughts one has...whether one covets another's spouse. Or...involves someone not loving the god quite enough...or loving some other god too much...opr bowing down to idols.
     
  16. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    You know, on another messageboard I know of there are foul mouthed atheists, non-Christian cultists, lying weasels, and generally all manner of scumbags who are always calling Christians "hypocrites" simply because they don't like the cut of their jib.

    All of that stuff in the Bible is for YOU, not for the other guy. The other guy is on his own hook, the only person you are responsible for is yourself.
     
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  17. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    As a Christian myself, I would say that the main function of Christianity is for the practitioner to realize that they are indeed sinful (morally imperfect) and in need of a Savior to atone for those sins, and also to let their works be the fruit of their faith in Jesus, so that others may take notice and might decide to follow Jesus as well. I suppose that could be argued as "elevating oneself above their baser nature".

    I can't really disagree with you here. While fruits (ie, "works") aren't necessary in order to be saved (as one is saved by grace alone, through faith), fruits should indeed result from following the Word of God. That doesn't take hypocrisy away, but one should at least be aware of their hypocrisy and consistently attempting to mitigate it.

    Again, I can't really disagree there. Fruits ought to result from one's faith in Jesus.
     
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  18. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Most sin involves hurting other people, by stealing, lying, cheating, etc.
     
  19. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Yet, there will always be someone who will call you a hypocrite for not living up to their standards, never mind God's standards. God says you are forgiven, men will never forgive you, you don't even have to have done anything wrong, you might have just done something they don't like.
     
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  20. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bullshit.

    We have Jesus for a source on that.

    What is the most important commandment...according to Jesus?

    It has nothing to do with hurting people!

    It has to do with kissing the god's ass.
     
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Maybe you're not wise enough to know how your dick can hurt other people.

    If you sleep with a man's wife, he walks in on you and what you did provokes him into a murderous rage, a part of the sin for whatever he might end up doing falls on YOU.

    ( just ONE example)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  22. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, trust me.
    Maybe so, by whatever twisted defintion of the term you presumably have in mind; but in any case, all you're doing is evading the point.
    Then whatever you see isn't worth seeing.
    Assuming they include the preposterous idea that sin is an act of humanity, of course I can.
     
  23. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'd no more trust you on this topic than I would Rush Limbaugh on the topic of staying thin.

    All a "sin" is...is a thought, word, or deed of a human...that offends his/her god.

    A god that is offended by EVERY human...is not much of a god.
     
  24. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wake the hell up.

    Most of the "sins" have nothing to do with hurting anyone...except some over-sensitive, angsty god.

    Pounding one's dick supposedly offends this god; sticking one's dick into a woman to whom you are not married supposedly offends this god; sucking some other guy's dick supposedly offends this god.

    Just three examples. I've got lots more.
     
  25. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and you won't have it otherwise.
     

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