Needles, Syringes, Feces, Bodies on our Streets

It's obvious you don't understand at this point, and perhaps that's my fault. Let me try again in more clear terms:

1) Offer all homeless people free housing/meals/education/healthcare etc, in exchange for their verified sobriety and all around good behaviour.

2) Those who decline it, do so in the knowledge (maybe have them sign something to this effect) that they are turning down ALL further Govt interest or assistance, and that street sleeping will no longer be allowed.

This does two very important things. It focuses far more resources into the hands of the genuine, and identifies the non-genuine so no further resources are wasted on them. I will add that if you (general you, not you personally) want something different to that, then your motivation isn't to help - it's something much less noble.

 

Read it again. It would create MORE for those in need, not less. That's the entire point of it.

And remember ... anyone who turns down the very things they constantly claim to want (housing, healthy meals, healthcare, education, etc) just because it requires sobriety, is in no way, shape, or form in need. They are merely in want. These are the very people who should not be getting any of the resources meant for the needy.

 

They won't have that option, if proper vagrancy laws are reinstated. They'll need to find another way.

Yes, addicts are a problem. But it's a problem they can overcome, if they're serious about getting off the streets. Their success with sobriety is directly proportional to how badly they want or need to improve their lives. That's how human nature works. If it's your survival at stake, you'll do whatever you need to do. The problems for our First World society arose when we started protecting people from the consequences of terrible choices. When we removed the threat to survival.

 

ok, I misunderstood you then, sorry about that

but I will add, that some do feel like a failure for not being able to afford housing and just give up, turn to drugs and alcohol, they feel like what is the point... once there though it's hard to come back from it

 

That's cool.

Meantime, unfortunately that 'excuse' doesn't wash. If they were genuinely determined to regain any sort of normalcy, the very last thing they'd do is waste what little they have on drugs/alcohol. That's not the behaviour of the poor and needy, that's the behaviour of the entitled and privileged. You have to measure these things by human (as in global) standards, not the very unique conditions of the First World. Humans who are concerned about their survival, just do not waste resources .. under any circumstances. They live as frugally as possible, and things like recreational use of drugs and alcohol aren't even on the radar.

 

It's insulting to declare that anyone who doesn't endorse your particular prescription for ending homelessness doesn't want to help.

But read your paragraph 2) and tell me what bad things happen to those who decline your offer of help and continue sleeping on the street. You say you won't allow it, but you also say we don't need to do anything.

If you mean they go to jail, that's no different from my proposal for camps: only the locations are different. Moreover, if they go to jail, its not going to be for more than a day or two. It's not much of a disincentive.

 

agree, but not everyone thinks so logically when they are in despair, some may only plan to check out temporarily, like a vacation for the poor, then they can't get out once they went down the rabit hole

 

You think it's insulting to offer far more than they're now offered? Stability, opportunity, healing, etc? The only thing that could make you think that is if you're actually invested in perpetuating addiction. Are you?

No idea what you're asking here, sorry. What becomes of those who turn down the very thing they claim to want, is their own concern. Entirely up to the individual. The whole point of the exercise is to throw it back to them, just as it's thrown to us to keep our ducks in a row and live within the laws. And why on earth would WE need to DO anything? We don't interfere in the lives of other random strangers, so why would we with these people?

I don't mean anything other than to outlaw street sleeping. How that's enforced is beside the point.

 

The shanty dwelling ultra-poor of Bangladesh don't 'check out for a vacation'. That's the benchmark. Work from that position, and you quickly recognise the cruelty and injustice of enabling the wrong people.

 

I think you are deliberately avoiding my question about sanctions at this point, and you're compounding your original insult by insinuating now that I am actually invested in perpetuating addiction!

I do not deserve this.

 

Don't know what you mean by sanctions, sorry. And 'insults' are intended to make you think about the consequences of enabling ideologies.

 

no clue what you're trying to say

the reality is, in the real world, people make bad decisions, and sometimes they need help getting back on track, sometimes they are beyond help due to mental issues

 

You knew exactly what I was saying, since you responded accurately.

And no, in the real world people in precarious financial situations DON'T make 'bad decisions'. In fact it's a defining hallmark of the global poor, to be ultra cautious and frugal. We are the anomally, because only in our ivory tower First World do the poor feel entitled to take risks others will have to pay for. And how did we get that way? Because we have this mindset of 'helping' the worst people.

Instead of loving our fellows enough to want them benefit from consequences, we decided to cheat them out of all their potential.