New York Times: Trump administration withholds emails on Ukraine aid

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by 3link, Jan 3, 2020.

  1. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/03/politics/trump-administration-emails-foia-ukraine-aid/index.html

    If Trump has nothing to hide, then why is he withholding 40 pages of emails? His excuse is that these emails are protected by the "deliberative process" privilege. The idea behind this privilege is that it is harder for members of the executive branch to exchange candid advice if it is known that advice will be made public later on.

    However, deliberative process only protects communications that are "predecisional" and "deliberative." A communication is predecisional if it is prepared to assist an agency (or an executive within an agency, including the President or his aides) in arriving at a decision. A communication is deliberative if it contains advice to be used in reaching that decision.

    It will be very interesting to see if the emails in question are in fact covered by the privilege. Fortunately the documents will have to be turned over to a judge who will have to decide whether they meet this high bar.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  2. After-Hour Prowler

    After-Hour Prowler Banned

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    Trump is going to do you no favors and who could blame him?

    You need to take him to court & maybe you get lucky and get an Obama judge. You should also hope it doesn’t get to the Supreme Court.
     
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  3. Market Junkie

    Market Junkie Banned

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    This must be "fake news", 'link.

    commander bone spurs told the rubes that he has the "most transparent" administration in the history of the world... lol
     
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  4. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The American people blame trump for his decision to block any and all efforts at transparency.

    Congress impeached him for his obstruction.
     
  5. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    The claim is extremely dubious especially in light of all of the contemporaneous evidence. Trump decided, unilaterally, to place a hold on the aid and his employees scrambled to understand why and to provide legal and political cover for his decision after the fact. These are not communications aimed at helping trump make decisions, but to craft a message which explains and justifies the decision after the fact.

    The amount of obstruction presented by trump in regards to every aspect of the Ukraine investigation screams of guilt to a significant majority of rational viewers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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  6. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We literally had guys in the Obama admin openly defying congressional subpoenas... remember Eric Holder?

    But Trump is a monster.
     
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  7. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We literally have guys in the Trump admin openly defying congressional subpoenas..... remember everybody in the Trump admin??
     
  8. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is so true... there is almost zero chance these emails are "predecisional".

    Oh well, I guess we just have to wait for patriots to get these full emails to the professionals at JustSecurity or others to determine how much of that claim is bullshit (I'm guessing approaching 100%). The Trump admin has me ROOTING for leakers... How weird is that?? I can tell you that isn't my default stance when it comes to our government, since I generally understand some things need to remain private, for a period of time anyway.

    But with this abuses of all known systems, Trump has changed my mind.

    Interesting these are emails between 2 of the 4 witnesses requested by Schumer....
     
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  9. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    CNN article doesn't say will... it says might.... I assume there is no reason for the NYT not to ask for a judge to complete their request.
     
  10. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    And if you have nothing to hide then why not give away your password to every form of private communication that you have? Email, pin for your voicemail etc etc....if not then what are you hiding?

    See how that goes? Your argument is the same that they used to pass the Patriot Act. One of the most unconstitutional pieces of legislation that we've had in decades.

    Oh wait...you'll use the excuse of "well...I'm not the President" or some variation thereof right? Then I'm sure that you won't mind applying the same to every communication that every future Democratic Party Presidents has right? And all past ones?
     
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  11. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Do you know how many times Eric Holder appeared and testified before Congress, including to be asked Fast and Furious? At least four.

    Do you know how many documents the Obama administration handed over, specifically about Fast and Furious (and before any contempt order)? 7000

    So with your whataboutism thoroughly crushed, yes, Trump is a ****ing monster.
     
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  12. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Every communication? No.

    Communications directly related to a topic of significant public interest, like impeachment? Yes.
     
  13. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why don't you fill out a FOIA on 3link? See how far you get

    https://www.foia.gov/about.html
     
  14. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Considering the low bar that the Democratic Party has set for Impeachment I guess that means that you're all for every future Democratic President to release all communications.
     
  15. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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  16. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Was right on whatever limited and incorrect point you failed to make about public documents vs private passwords..

    Your failure to make the connection is not my concern...
     
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  17. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What's worse than Trump are the unchecked attempts by low level people to keep him in power.. those anti-American arguments in the McGahn appeal case yesterday turned my stomach...

    This is barely a close second..
     
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  18. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Only if you consider hypocrisy "right".
     
  19. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    That is a (non-existent) risk that I gladly accept if it means future Presidents are prevented from thinking they are kings in the same way as trump.

    Do you endorse trump's argument that he can declare his advisors absolutely immune from Congressional investigation and that Congress can never ask the courts to review that choice?
     
  20. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    Unless you got proof that 3link refused to comply with a FOIA request, then you have zero grounds for accusing him of hypocrisy.
     
  21. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Trump has every right to exert Executive Privilege and ask the courts to not review something. Don't like it? :shrugs: oh well. That is a part of our system.

    Yeah yeah, I know, you'll come back with "trump is not exerting executive privilege" blah blah blah. As normal my answer will be the same that I've given you before on your Democratic Party little talking point. So skip it.
     
  22. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Since that is not why I'm calling hypocrisy towards what he said then I think perhaps you should mind your own beeswax. ;)
     
  23. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I've had an issue with using the phrase "Trump is acting like a king" since the beginning. There were many good kings over the centuries and many bad kings. Acting like a king doesn't imply the level of power he desires, nor what he would do with it if he got it.

    I would replace king with dictator... Those are the powers I feel he is striving for, with the eager help of the GOP and the department formerly known as the Department of Justice...

    Merriam-Webster
    : one holding complete autocratic control : a person with unlimited governmental power

    That was EXACTLY the argument that was made in front of the appeals court yesterday. We had a DOT (Department of Trump) lawyer asking to make our President a dictator...
     
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  24. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    No. I will not.

    You are fundamentally wrong. You must appear and exert executive privilege in response to specific questions.

    Trump is asserting ABSOLUTE IMMUNITY. That is not a democratic talking point, it is an official DOJ position in multiple court filings.

    FFS.
     
  25. MrTLegal

    MrTLegal Well-Known Member

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    You accused him of hypocrisy because he criticized trump for refusing to turn over private communications from trump's administration officials to a newspaper in response to a FOIA request about a topic of significant national interest and yet would not turn over his own personal communications to you on a topic of very insignificant national interest.

    Does your accusation feel dumber yet?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
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