No going back?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the Guardian: No going back to normal after the pandemic? Don't bet on it

    Rather than accepting the "Doom Merchants", some of us are promoting the notion that, in fact, both the US and the EU will rebound economically very well - but likely not until the 2021 will we be back to where we were "before".

    This article linked below reminds me of a well-known historical fact in France. That Paris - which was saved from most of the war's destruction that happened elsewhere in the battle to push the German army back out of France - rebounded fairly well almost immediately after the "Krauts" had left.

    Why? Because the Germans had left almost all of its economic infrastructure in tact. So, people needed only to restart their shopping habits for the economy to get back on track.

    From the above article, this excerpt:
    I could not agree more. Covid-19 is like tripping over something. You pick yourself up, brush yourself of ... and get on with life.

    And since we humans mostly ALL react in the same manner, that's exactly what will happen in the US economically. So, go for it!

    Cuz it's gonna happin anyway ... !

     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
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  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we are so far in debt and will need to go so far in debt to prevent the next recession, not sure how long before the US goes BK

    happened to Russia, could happen to us too

    Surprised Putin does say... Trump, tear down that wall ... but then again, he has Trump right where he wants him
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But, do we ever have some key lessons to learn:

    *First of all, when a pandemic happens anywhere on earth, we should not forget Lesson Numero Uno from Covid-19: We'd better get our ability to research a solution in gear and quickly. Any even marginal sign of an illness resulting in "social inactivity" for no apparent reason other than humans mingling with one another MUST BE SPOTTED AND ATTENDED TO IMMEDIATELY.

    *And no blarney about any chemical company that researches a potent solution and then tries to sell it to make a quick-billion-bucks to those most interested in buying it. A human disaster is HUMAN, meaning that the economic rules get bent/broken and general societal-safety becomes the predominant objective ...
     
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    DUMB IS AS DUMB DOES

    Nope, nope and nope.

    The US is NOT Russia and by a long shot. There is no real middle-class economic viability in Russia. Which means, when something happens to diminish demand, it is swiftly felt all over the country. Because there is no predominant economic nature where - regardless of what happens here or there - buyers maintain a basic economic activity. In Russia. As other countries that do have a Developed Economic Structure able to brush-off minor plunges in Demand.

    The key is a structure in which the Middle-class is in meaningful predominance. That is, not too many poor and not too many rich and ultra-rich o either side. But a middle-class that can buffet minor economic downturns and maintain generally Demand (for goods&services). Because there will ALWAYS EXIST minor economic downturns. A "viable economy" sees its way through them in quick fashion*.

    Because that is the manner in which all economies function over the long-term ...

    *Which behavior did not happen in the US from 2010 to 2014 called the Great Recession (see chart here). But only because the Replicants that controlled the HofR (until just recently) refused any stimulus-spending that typically allows economic recovery. Yet another example of the political "three D's": Dumb Is as Dumb Does.
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, also agree with Republicans denying helping the people under Obama

    if Trump would of gave those trillions to the working class over time vs the mega corps.. maybe - course republicans would have to raise the min wage too, will they?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No way. The down-and-out are not their voters.

    So, they kiss the asses of the rich who fund them to create "election advertising" to convince the poor that only Replicants know how to boost employment and thus get them jobs.

    Works every time, that lie ...
     
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  7. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    "So long as women continue to be judged on what they look like, then we will continue to care about it, and hairdressers will be busy. So long as some pushy parents furiously over-schedule their children, others will feel obliged to compete. Once we’re all out living public lives again and watching others live theirs, the corrosive fear of missing out – on parties to which everyone else was seemingly invited, career opportunities, some vaguely defined cultural zeitgeist – will seep back."

    I want, so badly, for this not to be true. I've had several conversations with people from all kinds of political leanings and cultural backgrounds regarding this pandemic. Specifically, the shut down. And most admitted to a time of looking inward. A personal re evaluation of sorts. And in that, I include myself. I became more appreciative of small things - I decided to cherish my life and those in it - I realigned my priorities - I no longer wanted to take 'living' for granted. I've made small changes - things I likely wouldn't have done before or without the shutdown. But I'm not yet convinced that people won't go right back to life as it was. Priorities as they were. In fact, they may well go back at it with a renewed gusto!
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    lol, not all republicans are rich, they just do not get that, many work min wage jobs too
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It would I suspect be amazing what could happen if one relatively corrupt government official were to be replaced with a research physician who it seems is actually attempting to live by the Hypocratic Oath.

    If the entire economy is heading south.... what is the point in protecting the domination of the markets that BigPharma has?

    I have good reason to believe that Americans, Canadians and anybody living in an economically advanced nation could live an extra ten surprisingly healthy years IF..... the lies of Big Pharma would be exposed! This would cause a boost in OPTIMISM... which would positively effect Wall Street!

    Who would you nominate to replace Dr. Anthony Fauci?

    I think that Dr. Joseph Ahrens should be given serious consideration based on his statement:

    "The difference between Ebola and influenza is that inflammatory response" (Dr. Joseph Ahrens after the 5:50 mark in this video:



     
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, but in our money-hungry country it takes a lotta-moulah to run a political party. So, who's been funding the Replicants at election time in order to get "a say" in the matter of what the party does in LaLaLand on the Potomac - the rich or middle-class Replicant voters?

    And I suspect the same thing happens with the Dems. Which is why.WE MUST GET BIG-MONEY OUT OF POLITICS! Meaning that the government funds elections but voters can make a limited contribution to their party of choice. Say, never more than $5K per voter ...

    NB: Governments in fact do indeed funds political parties. If interested, see here ...
     
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  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I am not mistaken five thousand dollars Canadian may well be the upper limit that one individual or one company can make to a Canadian political party. They somewhat get around it though by hiring certain people for tens of thousands of dollars per hour to give speeches.
     
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This killer-virus aside, it is entirely possible that country makes it through to next year when the economy can start rebuilding itself from this present disaster. It will take all of next year for Demand to come up to a level that sustains fuller-employment.

    Hopefully with a new PotUS. One that knows how to fixate on the economy and not himself ...
     
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Riches are not the key-quality of any economy. It just happens to fascinate us however.

    What is sure certainly is that it is far easier - due to lower taxation - to propel oneself into the circle of Upper-class Millionaires in the US than elsewhere. Population is the key to generating wealth. But how that wealth is shared is a matter of public policy.

    The difference today between Europe and the US is that taxation is specifically higher in the former in order to provide two key services to any constituent country: Public Healthcare and Post-secondary Education.

    That is not the case in the US today. Upper income taxation is ridiculously low, which makes for more millionaires. Our tax-money is being wasted upon the DoD, when there is no good reason whatsoever to do so. The US is at war with no country.

    The DoD budget would be put to better usage educating our kids out of a post-secondary education
    ...
     
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    never said it was, just saying a large percentage of the country works min wage jobs under Trump, many of them republicans
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we are only postponing the next recession by dumping so many trillions into the economy, it's gonna happen, the question is when
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I agree. Not all.

    But it is the moneyed-rich who decides who leads the Replicant Party, which is the nub of the problem.

    I, for one, am all for a two party system where people can pick and chose candidates on both sides of the middle. I would prefer that a Middle Political Party exists. Which accepts Capitalism as its major economic element but also Social Democrat principles of government intervention in markets are key to human existence. (Namely all levels of national-education for one, and a National Health Care system for the other. Both necessities have become of such key-importance that they cannot be left-alone for "markets" to decide outcomes.)

    Which is why I suggest that we do in the US what has been done in Europe (and who, after WW2 decided NOT to adopt the US solution):
    *We rid our electoral procedure for the presidency of a stupid-mechanism (called the Electoral College) that has fouled the selection in five instances historically. The latest having been the last election.
    *We stop with the waste of spending more than half the Discretionary Budget (seen here) upon the DoD, and rather we spend it on assuring the nation's Educational Capacity & Quality on both the local and national level.
     

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