No Planers - Suicide To 9/11 Discussion

Discussion in '9/11' started by Adam Fitzgerald, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    I have noticed some here are no planers, maybe some here are "half-planers" (those who believe in planes crashing at WTC but not at Pentagon or Shanskville). I had penned a summary on my Facebook profile regarding the problem with this. It is too long to post here so i will link you to my Facebook page.


    The main underlying problem for the 9/11 Truth Movement comes from it's inability to agree on the specifics of the events that took place on September 11th 2001. Many varying degrees of belief which have embedded the various groups within itself while maintaining they are the representatives of truth itself. One such group that arrogantly proclaims such, are those who hold the belief that no hijacked planes were seen, nor did they crash anywhere on the day of 9/11. These people whether they are trolling forums for the "fun" of it, or are actual people who are stating it as the bold truth during lectures or published works do quite an enormous disservice not only to themselves but to those affected by this fantastical claim. To even propose such a scenario is basically the "death knell" for anyone affiliated with them, jokingly or not. Many high profile Truthers regurgitate this ridiculous proposition while profiting off this baseless assertion in front of a listening audience, they include, Thierry Meyssan, Kevin Barrett, Christopher Bollyn, Loose Change crew, Citizens Investigation Team, Brian Staverly, Rebekah Roth, Dave Von Kleist, Craig McKee, James Perloff, Barbara Honneger, John Lear, Morgan Reynolds, Jim Fetzer, Ace Baker, and these also include "Half-Planers" those who believe planes were hijacked and crashed into the WTC but not the Pentagon or Shanskville.

    What these talking heads of the so called "Truth" Movement have done is simply invite ridicule into their own group while denigrating the deceased victims on board the hijacked planes and those who were killed by it's impact. The actual "conspiracy" here is whether these above charlatans purport this laughable absurdity for nefarious reasons, such as profit or popularity, or that they are simply that astoundingly ignorant. The irony of the no planer/half planer scenario is this, it makes the operation of 9/11 to become vastly extensive involving more people into the planning which it turn makes it harder to keep it a secret from the public and it eliminates the Saudi/Israeli role. This would include the secrecy of all first responders (NYPD, NY EMS, NYFD, FBI, FEMA, Arlington County FD, Fort Meyer FD, Fairfax Urban Search and Rescue, NY Welders and volunteers, Shanksville FD, Central City FD, Hooversville FD, Listie FD, Virginia Medical technician Team, Ft. Belovoir Transportation Division). Literally thousands upon thousands within the public sector had to be involved in keeping the secret involving no planes on 9/11, and they had to be either threatened with being fired, blackmail or even death. This also includes the FBI, CIA and State Dept. as well as Pentagon employees who had to inform these public servants of whats at stake. Do you see the problem now? If not, you are a victim of the above aforementioned frauds who have kept you in a state of absolute confusion. But you don't have to be anymore, as i will simply and effortlessly outline the evidence for all 4 planes being hijacked and crashing into all 4 areas that impacted so many lives on September 111th 2001.

    https://www.facebook.com/AdamFitz1969/posts/352664785271734?__tn__=K-R
     
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  2. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    excellent post ... many aspects of what you claim have been discussed here ad nauseum ... as you tread the waters of troofery , you will start to notice the pattern of ignorance and denial with a major smattering of misdirection and misinterpretation of the actual facts ...

    the basic mantra is the the government lies (they certainly do btw) ... so every fact must be scrutinized as PROOF that 9/11 was a false flag operation so we could invade foreign countries and take their resources ... or their hot chicks or something ...

    coherency and agendas are a major problem here ...
     
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  3. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    I think what is needed here is a fresh start with new information that isnt being discussed about 9/11. If some here cannot get the basics about what happened right, they for sure arent going to understand the finer details...and there is so much more pre and post 9/11.
     
  4. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Yeh I know, but then when truthers demand to see evidence like:

    2 main landing gear
    8 big ass main landing gear wheels.
    2 big ass engines

    and lo and behold the people that are trying to shut down all no plane talk have nothing, zilch, nada but ridicule, shocking isnt it Adam?

    Here present for you, this is the debris from the pentagon compared with debris from a real commercial jet

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Are you aware of what happens to an airplane when it burns unabated? I'm sure you saw the 747 pictures and that was a mild landing in the open.

    For those who are terribly unable to understand:

    1. Your picture is of an open air impact where the pilot is not attempting to obliterate the aircraft, but is attempting to bring it down safely.
    2. To that end, not nose on impact at max speed into a very resistant brick wall!
    3. Due to the nature of the dispersal of parts on impact, resulting fires will not be as significant.
    4. To that end, when the entire contents of the plane are within an enclosed area and burning unabated, one can expect a significant loss of debris.
    5. Your picture is a total lie as to what was recovered.

    Kindly point out or evade, the points above you don't understand or disagree with.
     
  6. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    well if you were paying attention and reading for comprehension in the other threads you should have noticed that there are some here that realize there is no material evidence of a '757'. Good luck convincing anyone what you post is credible when you misrepresent troofers.

    hey look mom the seat frames dont vaporize just because there is a fire! LOL

    [​IMG]



    Thats it, back to the vaporizing airplane loonacy. brilliant.

    Gam help out here, we got one saying a contents fire vaporizes aluminum, you know I dont have the patience for that ****.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  7. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Active Member

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    I once made a prediction when the truth movement was starting to die in 2007, I said that the amount of debunking information in the public would create 3 factions of people.

    The first group would be ex-truthers who would spend the time to look at the answers to their questions and find that 9/11 conspiracy theories are the same as moon landing and JFK theories; full of lies and ignorance, and would therefore leave the 9/11 'truth' movement.

    The second bunch would accept a certain level of facts about the event, such as the hijackings, the structural failures of the WTC buildings etc, but maintain that somehow the government/cia/israel etc must have had something to do with it and either helped or let it happened the way it happened..

    The third group, the minority fringe, would be so embedded in their believe that 9/11 had to be an inside job no matter what, that they would have to create and adopt more extreme beliefs for their conspiracy theory to be true, eg. no planers, mini-nukes, space energy weapons etc etc.

    Oh how right I was. Except I expected the second group to still be significant. As it turns out, they are the least significant of all 3, as most of them ended up in the first group of people who seeked out debunking information and ended up leaving the truth movement altogether.

    So what is left seems to be the die hard no-planers who have successfully reached a level of wilful ignorance that they will for the rest of their lives refuse any information whatsoever that may dare challenge their belief.

    Sad really. but at least their numbers are so insignificant now that it really doesn't matter. The 9/11 truth movement died after 2006 and the only remnants of what is left ceases to exist when I turn my computer off at night.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  8. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Pulease dont hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.

    There are a lot more groups than that.

    Firstly you forgot the posers, a special group of stealth gubmint supporters who make a big list of everything they hate about the gubmint to disarm casual readers then simply come out here deny all valid evidence (or lack thereof) with no valid justification for doing so, call names and say stupid **** like no-planer as if their agenda which by some magic coincidence just happens to agree with the gubmints 'big picture' of the event is a forgone agreed conclusion despite the fact a '757' has never been proven.

    Its all they got.

    They come out here and post grossly faulty and fallacious propositions to attempt 'poison the well' and tip the favor of the debate by saying such things as: No Planers - Suicide To 9/11 Discussion a feeble attempt at discussion/mind control to intimidate people to get them to avoid correctly pointing there is no evidence of a 757.

    Its all they got.

    These same people falsely misrepresent the position of those like myself who claim that there is no valid evidence to prove a 757 went in by changing it to no plane rather than no evidence of a 757.

    Its all they got.

    This last group seems to suffer from severe comprehension deficits, most likely caused by a mental block from mass media control tactics by those who have been pushing the gubmint agenda since seconds after the incident occurred.

    No evidence is evidence, there is no substantial material evidence of 757 in any of the claimed events. But dont let me interrupt a good bullshit story brought to you from people whos deep comprehensive investigation originate from falsified gubmint reports and msm.

    Now back to your previously scheduled he said/she said 'debate'.:lol:
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    It's very convenient to lump all OCT skeptics into labels (conspiracy theorists, truthers/troofers, tin foil hat wackos, etc.). That way they can just ridicule them as a group rather than accept them as independent thinkers who just plain haven't been indoctrinated into the official 9/11 fantasy.

    Exactly. When OCT skeptics point out the extreme lack of evidence due to many factors, its deliberate destruction, deliberate over-classification on false grounds, deliberate failure to investigate, just plain lack of evidence, etc. they will accuse them of denying the evidence. Half a story is a LIE and always will be.

    This is phony propaganda meant to marginalize 9/11 skeptics as a group of lock-step thinkers with their own brand of fantasy. This thread is a perfect example.

     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yessir, give yourself a pat on the back. Give yourself a gold star too.

    If the truth movement was "beginning to die" in 2007, why is it that just last month in 2018 the US Attorney agreed to seat a grand jury to investigate?
     
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  11. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Because he's a dying troofer and everyone on the grand jury will be made up of dying troofers (or are if they've already been selected). And these people are also dying troofers, the numbers going up on a nearly basis are just an illusion.

    3,083 Architects & Engineers
    22,781 Members of the Public

    https://www.ae911truth.org/


    And these people are dying too:

    https://www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org/about2/

    So are these:

    http://www.consensus911.org/panel-members/

    (unfortunately some really are no longer with us. It's been over 17 years after all.)
     
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  12. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    "Truthers" who promote the no-plane theory are infiltrators trying to make the truth movement look silly.

    provocateurs,shills and disinfo agents

    (7:20 time mark)


    Real truthers believe that planes did indeed hit the towers.
     
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  13. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    I guess this makes you a "half-planer" ... perhaps if you looked at the evidence I have provided numerous times, we could get you to at least a 3/4-planer ...
     
  14. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Real truthers? That isn't you. You are a Pentagon no planer. The truth movement doesn't have to be made to look "silly". Not one of you can agree and every one of you denies evidence.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  15. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    I had to read that a couple of times before it sunk in. Your're looking at that mangled burnt out husk and suggesting that the seat frames are intact? I don't believe anyone can look at that and fail to see that it's all burnt to a crisp with everything on the floor of the cabin.

    Do you understand the difference between melt and vaporize? Your posts are actually getting worse if that is possible.
     
  16. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    Your prediction was almost perfect as to what is happening in the current day. I have noticed that these "fringe" groups that are embedded in the Truth Community have now encompassed as the majority. I blame the likes of Loose Change, Rebekah Roth, James Fetzer and CIT Team mainly because they purported these scenarios as truth, that no hijacked planes existed, that there was a fly over at the Pentagon, or that all f the planes were outfitted as drones.....none of these scenarios make even a lick of sense and not only that there is absolutely zero evidence to support any of them. Judging by what i have seen here and elsewhere, im not shocked at the level of ignorance any longer. Im here to help educate the fence sitters (those who dont post but read) and be helpful in any way.

    With that, im also not a defender of the official account. Yes planes were hijacked and crashed at the WTC, Pentagon and Shanskville.....but there were supposed to be more planes hiajcked that day and in the days when the FAA lifted the suspension. There was also numerous intelligence groups inside the country who knew about these operatives and often times neglected to inform the State Dept. and FBI of their whereabouts. Most of these incidents were never brought up in the 9/11 Commission or the Joint Inquiry.
     
  17. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Then you just contradicted yourself, that is the official account and you're defending it.
     
  18. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    Its part of it. There are many claims within the government narrative i disagree with.
     
  19. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Such as? All I've read from you so far are posts that parrot and defend the official 9/11 narrative. What officially claimed 9/11 event do you significantly disagree with?
     
  20. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    Such as testimonies which were not made available to the public. (Lt.Col. Anthony Shaffer, NSA Thomas Drake)
    That the CIA was never held accountable for refusing to contact the FBI about known Al Qaeda operatives in the country.
    That the 9/11 Commission knew about the LA Hilton hotel in which two Al Qaeda operatives stood in January 2000, in which Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi stood with a room rented for them and this information was kept hidden from the public, the receipt for the room is redacted.
    Such as numerous flights had weapons (knives, Box cutters) hidden on some flights.
    United Airlines Flight 23 which was a suspected hijacking but foiled due to the FAA suspension of flights
    That Condi rice lied under oath when she stated they did not know about planes being used as weapons when they had known about Bojinka Plot since 1996.
    Omar al-Bayoumi and Omar Basnan known saudi nationals whose testimonies are redacted and neither testified before the Commission, both assisted Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi.
    The Israeli spy ring which infiltrated the DEA and FBI. 200 Israelis were deported in 2002. AMDOCS.
    The 5 Israelis who were arrested on the NJ turnpike while claim to have worked at Urban Moving Systems which was later found to be a Mossad front with numerous moving companies located in Florida, New Jersey and New York which had contacts with its owner Domincik Suter who fled to Israel after FBI contacted him for 2nd interview.
    The original flight manifests were never released.
    NORAD openly gave false time frames for their days events.

    There is more, but i figured this is enough for now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    The failure to legitimately investigate 9/11, lack of accountability and extreme over classification is well known. But there's not one thing you cited that significantly questions or disagrees with the official 9/11 narrative. You are still parroting and defending the official story. What makes it even more hypocritical is that you acknowledge all these failures yet you don't seem to be able to grasp that any one of these failures has the potential to throw a major monkey wrench into the entire official story.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    And those planes were not AA11 and UA175.
     
  23. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. That's pretty clear.

    Was the 9/11 Attack the 2001 Version of "Operation Northwoods"?
     
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  24. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Member

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    It seems you have a very hard time acknowledging that the 9/11 account by the Commission isnt just about 4 planes being hijacked and crashing. Its much more than this. Their history and data they collected are erroneous and incomplete. You are stuck on the planes, im far far ahead.
     
  25. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Where do you get this from? I read their phony story, didn't you? I also started an entire thread on their scam which I gave you the link to and you claimed you were going to read it. I guess you decided not to bother.

    And FOS, but you would know I knew that if you read through the thread.

    From your posts, it seems it's you who's stuck on the planes and alleged hijackings, you keep repeating their story as if it were fact. But to be sure Chapter I is called "WE HAVE SOME PLANES" and you keep parroting it. This is the crux of the OCT in case you're not aware:



    Yeah somewhere in lalaland. The OCT is not just about what the 9/11 Commission claim it is, there is far more to the fairy tale than their story. The NIST story comprises a huge portion of the OCT, you've never mentioned it, as if that doesn't exist either.

    Again, nothing you posted significantly questions or contradicts the OCT, just your claim of being far far ahead, whatever that's supposed to mean.
     

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