Non-Jews should not be allowed to live in Israel - Israel's Chief Rabbi

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by ForumPoster, May 8, 2016.

  1. ForumPoster

    ForumPoster Banned

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    Israel's chief rabbi Yitzhak Yosef has said that non-jews who live in Israel must either serve the jews or leave the country:

    https://www.rt.com/news/337676-israel-for-jews-rabbi/

    What do you think of the chief rabbi's statement? Is this something that should be implemented? What does this say about the values of "the only democracy in the Middle East"? Post your thoughts.
     
  2. ForumPoster

    ForumPoster Banned

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  3. The Great Zeus

    The Great Zeus New Member

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    Someone needs a cookie...

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As a strong supporter if Israel, I find that statement harmful. If that was the sentiment of most Israelis, I would certainly reconsider my support.

    That is why I have zero support for their neighbors.
     
  5. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Israel s a (*)(*)(*)(*)ng Democracy, get it? Anyone is allowed to say anything they want. You know what's the difference between Israel and your beloved (I guess) Arabic nations? By saying such nonsense, the esteemed rabbi does not risk being decapitated or even being put to jail.

    There.
     
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  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reminds me of a poll I saw last week though he is a bit more abrasive - an exert in the Jerusalem Post

    http://www.jpost.com/National-News/53-percent-of-Israelis-say-Arabs-should-be-encouraged-to-leave
     
  7. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    Zionists are vile racists who committed ethnic cleansing. This is a well known fact. They are no better than Natzis, and everyday, they prove this to be more true.
     
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  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Israel has apartheid policies today. They control where non-Jews are allowed to live, for example.

    And, Netanyahu has stated preference for moving more strongly in an apartheid direction with his notion of separate level of citizenship for Israelis who are Jewish - differentiation that would be recognized by the courts. And, this direction has been promoted within the Israeli government as a significant issue, not just some backwater idea held by bigots or something.


    Looking around to try to find worse nations is not really an adequate direction for argument.

    This is all the more important as Netanyahu and others in the government deny that there will ever be a two state solution.

    The sales pitch for West Bank to be subsumed by Israel includes two key features - ethnic cleansing and apartheid.
     
  9. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    Multiple laws, policies, and court rulings in Israel violate nearly every freedom enumerated in the First Amendment of the US Constitution, including freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of peaceable assembly. If Israeli politicians wish to brag that their nation resembles western democracies, they must defend the freedoms those countries hold dear. Israel does not.

    Let’s start with religion. Ultra-orthodox Jews are eligible for welfare salaries from the Israeli government, which allow them to spend their days reading the Torah and praying, rather than earning a living. Catholic priests, Islamic scholars, Mormons, and atheists, however, do not get salaries for sitting around and pondering their beliefs. Israeli politicians, including the Prime Minister himself, routinely insist that Israel is a Jewish state, and that Palestinians must recognize that if they want to ever have a state of their own. No fully functioning democracy on earth has such an offensive religious policy, and the establishment of a national religion is something that goes against the very first democratic protection expressed in the American Bill of Rights.

    Does Israel have a free press? Israeli news media must routinely submit their work to military censors for approval prior to publication. Imagine if journalists in the United States were forced to hand over their work to the Marines for their blessing, and then ask yourself if the American press, bound by such shackles, could be considered free. An Israeli journalist reported in an op-ed in the International Herald Tribune this month that another Israeli journalist and ex-soldier had been sentenced to four and a half years in jail for blowing the whistle on potential Israeli war crimes. This was after the whistleblower was confined to house arrest for two years. Another reporter for Haaretz, who received the leaked documents from the ex-soldier, may face criminal charges, despite having received approval from his military censor to publish a related report.

    As for freedom of speech, a shocking policy passed by Israeli officials outlaws a core element of that right. One of the ways that citizens in a democracy can most powerfully effect change is by speaking through their financial decisions. Israeli lawmakers astonishingly passed a bill this year that makes it illegal to call for boycotts of Israeli goods, services, and even universities or cultural organizations. One renowned Israeli legal scholar quoted in The Guardian called the bill’s passage the “blackest day in Knesset history.”

    Lastly, freedom of peaceable assembly is something the Israeli government openly dismisses. While thousands of Israelis have been recently demonstrating in Tel Aviv and elsewhere for economic change, not everyone in Israeli territory can do the same. Implicit in the right to peaceably assemble are the freedoms of association and of human movement. There are over 500 military checkpoints, closures, and military barricades in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, which is slightly larger than Delaware. During my travels to Israel and the West Bank I met a Palestinian man who missed the birth of his son because Israeli soldiers refused to let him through a checkpoint. I once told this man I grew up in Florida and that my wife is from Seattle, and also explained the thousands of miles between those two cities. “How many hundreds of military checkpoints are between those places?” he asked. He was flabbergasted and then saddened when I told him there were none.

    Palestinians rights to assemble, to visit family and friends, and to access institutions are crippled by an Israeli police presence that would’ve made Mao giddy and George Orwell vomit. This is in addition to a twenty-five-foot-high wall that is over 400 miles long, equipped with electrical fencing, sniper towers, and razor wire that keeps Palestinians where the Israeli military wants them. Israel does have legitimate security threats from extremist groups, but Israel is also the only regional power with nuclear bombs, and its carpet bombing in recent years of Lebanon and Gaza and the mass civilian casualties it inflicted indicate the country doesn’t need a wall to defend itself.

    Israel’s apologists sometimes counter that speech in Israel is freer than in any other country in the Middle East, and this is true. But again, Israelis aren’t satisfied, rightly, with being labeled more open than Algeria or Saudi Arabia. They want more. A democracy is more than a country that just holds scheduled, meaningful elections. Even Mubarak’s Egypt had elected politicians serving in parliament that the regime didn’t like, but Egypt was not a working democracy. Israeli policymakers may claim their country is a modern democratic state, but there are simply too many indicators revealing that it is not.
     
  10. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    The Israeli parliament has passed a law banning journalists working for the country’s public broadcast authority from expressing their opinions on air.

    Journalists immediately accused the government of trying to stifle dissent.

    Israel’s press council urged parliament to cancel the law, which was passed by the Knesset early Thursday in the middle of the night, saying it violates free speech.

    According to the law, journalists must “avoid one-sidedness, prejudice, expressing personal opinions, giving grades and affixing labels.”

    Cabinet minister Ofir Akunis said the law only applies to newscasts. He believes some journalists who are critical of the government “aren’t being professional"

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...ists-say-new-israeli-law-violates-free-speech

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Israeli government has been accused of violating the right to free expression by approving a law that penalises individuals and organisations that call for boycotts against Israel.

    The law effectively bans any public call for a boycott — economic, cultural or academic — against Israel or any area under its control, such as the occupied Palestinian territories, making such action a punishable offence.

    An editorial in the New York Times, Not befitting a democracy, says the law tarnishes Israel's reputation and argues that it is a fundamental issue of free speech.

    It concludes: "Opponents are already challenging the law in court. We hope they succeed, for Israel's sake."

    The Israeli newspaper Haaretz is also opposed to the boycott prohibition law, which passed through parliament on a 47-38 vote.

    In an editorial, it calls the law "a politically opportunistic and anti-democratic act, the latest in a series of outrageously discriminatory and exclusionary laws enacted over the past year."


    http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/jul/21/freedom-of-speech-israel
     
  11. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Zionists are not a democracy as they don't picture it. Nor or they Jewish as they don't follow Torah.
     
  12. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    many Zionists follow the Torah
     
  13. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    No. If they didnt, they won't be in Israel.

    They are supposed to be in exile. Exiled by their own god from the Israel for their sin. (According to their religion). Their Messiah will come and he alone. Not man. Not man with God's help. But the Messiah will find the kingdom of heaven on earth.


    The People of Israel oppose the so-called "State of Israel" for four reasons:

    FIRST -- The so-called "State of Israel" is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel, as is explained above. The only time that the People of Israel were permitted to have a state was two thousand years ago when the glory of the creator was upon us, and likewise in the future when the glory of the creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him, then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service. However, a worldly state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substitutes another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation," and the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize a land and army. However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. This is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

    SECOND -- Because of all of this and other reasons the Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed He, in His Glory and Essence will redeem us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as is explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. If we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

    THIRD -- Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel is required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the congregation of Israel.

    FOURTH -- Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power from fulfilling the commands of the Torah, the claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight with all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

    The Zionists claim that they are the saviors of Israel, but this is refuted by twelve things:

    FIRST -- If one contemplates the two thousand years of our exile, take any hundred years even the hardest, one will not find as much suffering, bloodshed, and catastrophes for the People of Israel in the period of the Zionists, and it is known that most of the suffering of this century was caused by the Zionists, as our Rabbis warned us would be the case.

    SECOND -- It is openly stated in books written by the founders of Zionism that the means by which they planned to establish a state was by instigating anti-Semitism, and undermining the security of the Jews in all the lands of the world, until they would be forced to flee to their state. And thus they did - They intentionally infuriated the German people and fanned the flames of Nazi hatred, and they helped the Nazis, with trickery and deceit, to take whole Jewish communities off to the concentration camps, and the Zionists themselves admit this. (See the books Perfidy, Min Hameitzor, etc.). The Zionists continue to practice this strategy today. They incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the "saviors". Here are two replies given by Leaders of the Zionists during World War II, when they were asked for money to help ransom Jews from the Nazis. Greenbaum said "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Poland." (G-d forbid).
    Weitzman said, "The most important part of the Jewish people is already in the land (of Israel) and those who are left, are unimportant" (May we be spared).

    THIRD -- We see that most of world Jewry lives in security and under good physical conditions, and have no desire to go live in the Zionist State. Whereas many people have left the Zionist State to live under better conditions in other lands.

    FOURTH -- The Zionists make a great deal of propaganda to induce people to immigrate to their state. If their state is so beneficial why do they have to make so much propaganda.

    FIFTH -- Because nobody wants the Zionists to "save" them. The only way they can get immigrants is by promising poor people material benefits, and even then very few people respond.

    SIXTH -- The Zionist State is always threatened by the dangers of war. Whereas the rest of world Jewry live in peace and security, (Except in a few places where the Zionists have undermined their security and fanned the flames of hatred)

    SEVENTH -- The Zionist State could not continue to exist without economic support from Jews living outside of the Zionist State.

    EIGHTH -- The Zionist State is on the verge of economic collapse, and their money is nearly worthless.

    NINTH -- The Zionist State persecute all Jews who are loyal to their Faith.

    TENTH -- They start wars that endanger the Jewish People, for the sake of their own political interests.

    ELEVENTH - According to the Torah the path of safety is following ways of peace not starting fights with other nations, as the Zionists do.

    TWELFTH -- Even if the Zionists could and would provide physical security it would be at the expense of our Faith and Our Torah the true People of Israel prefer death rather than life at such a cost.

    It is therefore clear that Zionism is not the savior of the people of Israel. Rather it is their greatest misfortune.

    Even though there are some observant Jews and rabbis, who approve of the Zionists, this is not the opinion of the Torah.

    The Zionists have enough control over the American news media to make sure that only their side of the story is heard.

    They make it look like all Jewry and their rabbis are Zionists, but this is false propaganda.

    The most important Rabbis and the majority of religious Jewry are opposed to Zionism, but their voice is not heard because of Zionist control of American news media.

    The Zionists terrorize everyone who speaks out against them.

    That part of the Jewish masses which is fooled by Zionist propaganda puts pressure on their Rabbis not to speak out.

    Between the terror and the pressure of the masses most of the Rabbis are prevented from speaking out.

    We bring three testimonies of the true opinion of the Torah.

    1) In the past two thousand years of the dangers and sufferings of exile not once did any of the Sages of Israel suggest that we make a state to protect ourselves. In every generation we had thousands of Sages well versed in the Torah.

    2) We have thousands of legal work of Torah law that have been handed down to us by the Sages of all generations. Not once do we see a word suggesting the establishment of a state. What we do find is warnings against it.

    3) The founders of Zionism were all atheists who denied the Torah. All the Torah Sages of that time opposed them and opposed Zionism, saying that Zionism would lead only to destruction.

    However the true People of Israel will never change their nature or give up their Faith because of the strength the Creator gives them.

    Zionism is a foreign growth in the body of the Jewish People. The end will be that it will rid itself of this foreign growth and remain pure.

    Zionism has overcome the Jewish people by force, fraud and terror, but none of this will help them because the truth will always remain with the help of the Creator.

    Zionism will not replace the Jewish People. The Jewish People will remain strong in their faith and the Zionist State will cease to exist.

    It is therefore, our demand that the State that calls itself ISRAEL, should cease to exist. Since this won't be done, we demand that they cease to call themselves "Israel", because their entire being is in complete opposition to the true People of Israel. The true People of Israel deny them permission to call themselves by that name. The Zionist leaders have no right to set themselves up as the representatives and spokesmen of the true People of ISRAEL.

    Since we know they will not fulfill this demand either we feel that at least we cry out the truth. The truth will always remain the truth. By no means or force can the truth be changed. Even if all the world would say that one and one is three, the truth will remain that one and one is two.

    Let the truth be declared. The use of the Name "ISRAEL" by that State is a complete falsification. The People of Israel have nothing to do with that State. Zionism and its State have no share and no part in the true ISRAEL.


    http://www.nkusa.org/AboutUs/Zionism/opposition.cfm


    It's a known fact that Hezrl was a antisemite with no formal Jewish education. He was practically an atheist.
     
  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you're not a Jew, so you have no idea what you're talking about.

    One can follow the Torah and live in the Land of Israel.

    there are hundreds of thousands of non-Zionist Jews in Israel. Many of them Hasidic Orthodox Jews.
     
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  15. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is consistent with the U.N. General Assembly
    2/3rds majority vote to partition Palestine
    into a "Jewish" State and an Arab State.
    Why is it "wrong" to declare Israel is a Jewish State? It is, per the U.N. partition.



    Moi :oldman:

    r > g


    View attachment 43108
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.


    ForumPoster
    You never replied to http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=456267&page=3&p=1066181653#post1066181653 :confusion: How come?
    Then I find this thread and wonder,
    Does ForumPoster have an ax to grind. I mean an Anti Israeli Ax, of course.
    Now here for your entertainment and enlightenment and applicable to the Old Business link above
    [video=youtube;2Gf6FOnt60U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gf6FOnt60U[/video]​
     
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  16. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well the UN vote was non binding and against it's own Charter and certainly according to Lilienthal in 'What Price Israel' only achieved after a demanded break during which there was a fair amount of blackmail/bribery. The Jewish State had almost as many Arabs in it till most of them found themselves in refugee camps and the Palestinians are still waiting for their state which Bennett told the Saban Forum a couple of years ago they most certainly were not going to get. He just had to do a bit more to get Israeli Jews around to his way of thinking. A State for the Palestinians was not going to happen. Instead, he said, Israel was going to annex 62% of the West Bank, having demolished most of the Palestinian houses in the area and refused to allow them planning permission in what was supposed to be their State. This of course is supported by many Israeli's and her supporters here who believe it is theirs already. The OP and your demand that Israel just be a State for Jews is supported by a slight majority in a Poll by the Israeli Democracy Institute in March of this year.

    So what is wrong you believe, well I already left a link concerning this but here is another. As my previous quote said 53% of Israeli Jews believe that Arab Israeli Citizens should be 'encouraged' to leave - some sources say 'expelled'. Is this a new thinking as some are protesting and what does it mean?

    On that

    http://www.jewishjournal.com/israel...ith_pew_finding_of_support_for_arab_expulsion


    while you believe that if Israel were to expel all her non Jews it would be fine, you are wrong to believe the UN even back in the day would have found that acceptable.
     
  17. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did you know, given the choice most Arabs would prefer to live in Israel instead of elsewhere in the Middle East?

    I'm so sick of listening and hearing Israel this and Israel that, mostly from people who's never been to another country and crossed State line twice in their life... No country is perfect, none, and neither is Israel. Still, it's the shining city on the hill, a country that disproportionately contributes to the betterment of the human race, and is hated for it. And, of course it is also hated because it's full of Jews.

    Fact.

    There.
     
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  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I think he sounds just as stupid as some rabid Muslim clerics.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's BS.. another Zionist lie.
     
  19. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can dissect and debunk each and every line of yours, if I had the time. What you're describing are the processes that to one degree or another going on in every (*)(*)(*)(*)ng country of the world.

    Except in these, where they chop your head off for the dissenting opinions.
     
  20. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Zhivago likes this.
  21. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Still, by the "Rule of Law", whether you believe the U.N. resolution was legal or not
    the partition was to establish a Jewish State and an Arab State,
    by a 2/3rds majority vote of the General Assembly.
    What happened to the Arab State is meat for another thread. Please start one

    POINT: The creation of Israel by the U.N. was the creation of a Jewish State.

    Now some 6+ decades later, Israelis are criticized for mentioning it is a Jewish State.
    Make sense?

    Personal note, I have no problem with Gentiles living in Israel.
    However, they should not be citizens of Israel but rather citizens of another nation while they reside in Israel.



    Moi :oldman:

    r > g


    View attachment 43113
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
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  22. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Banned

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    I don't see any problem. If Saudi Arabia can have all sorts of discriminatory laws against everyone and still be the main U.S ally and favourite business partner than other countries should also be allowed to emulate Saudi Arabia and do whatever they want within their borders. If Israelis want to turn Israel into Jewish Saudi Arabia, so be it. It's their call.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm sure it's better in Israel.

    After all, in West Bank ISRAEL is ruling the people under foreign military occupation law, is bulldozing their homes, and is carrying out long term ethnic cleansing operations.

    Is there ANYTHING about that comparison that you think holds Israel in a good light?
     
  24. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The Jew already turned Israel in a Jew apartheid state... when they ethnic cleansed 100.000's of Arabs. It shouldn't be allowed to even, they got what they deserve... a totally militarized society that fears being stabbed in the neck for their war criminal culture.
     
  25. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The UN never approved that the Jew massively ethnic cleansed Arab citizens to thieve their properties to make their jew apartheid nation.
     

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