“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I’m not at all happy with the current mess (who could be?!) but I don’t see the politicians doing anything different however much longer we give them so an extension would just continue the disruptive and expensive politicking and uncertainty indefinitely. I think we need to keep the hard deadline to force at least some kind of agreement. I could accept a short extension (say three months) if it was on the basis of a real prospect of agreement but the speculative booting the can way off in to the distance doesn’t strike me as in any way constructive. It’s going to be messy regardless of how we ultimately end up leaving (or at this point, even if we somehow remained) but we’re just going to have to face up to the hit and deal with the consequences the best we can.
Extending Article 50 is a complete no-no, creating more uncertainty will not help anyone. The deadline has to be 29th March and it has to be a no deal. The EU are the ones dragging their heels so I wouldn't play ball. They have far more to lose than us that's for sure.
Personally, I just want that Brexit finally happens and end with the current mad house ... But now and only objectively: # 01 It is a fact that the Brexit leaders then mostly and clearly lied before the referendum on many things and points that people then believed and voted for Brexit. Whether today, when these people now know that they have been lied about and what consequences this all means, the same result for a Brexit would be achieved again, is more than doubtful! # 02 The main point of contention is the border in Ireland, and thus the customs agreement at the same time. The EU has clearly and repeatedly stated that one can talk about one point again, but without renegotiating the whole agreement again ... only that is ignored in the UK! # 03 So far, the UK from all politichen corners comes only a long list of everything that you do not want in the UK ... but when will finally come from a majority opinionable from the UK, what you want? Then you can talk about it ... # 04 A "no deal Brexit" will hurt both sides ... but those consequences are denied by the Brexit people who want "no deal". Instead, then come as stupid arguments as WTO law then applies ... where people do not even know what that means. But you Britons have to know what you do or do not do by your own and it is not my issue ... I do not care what happens on March 29 or does not happen anymore.
And this is just such an example of total nonsense that some people in the UK actually believe. Yes, the EU and its members will hurt too ... but certainly not as much as you. If, for once, you objectively deal with the facts instead of just looking at them "with no deal Brexit glasses", then you would not write this and believe it yourself. But as I said ... just because from the island is just such a nonsense again and again told, I do not care anymore and I personally do not want you in the EU anymore. You have rights and benefits from the EU like no one else ... "British discount since 1984" as one keyword ... and you have got more money from Brussels than most of the others and then this eternal blaring and complaining from you all the time, crowned with the proven lies of Johnson and Farrage! Do what you want to do and go ... but go as fast as possible please! And I'm still pretty sure now that people like you will once again blame the EU for the very likely and violent negative consequences in the UK after Brexit instead of blaming yourself! It's simply easier to blame the bad others than one self and the own failures!
Why would we blame ourselves for democratically voting to leave? You treat it as if we are doing something wrong. Don't be so sauer(kraut), my friend.
Indeed....its about what's best for us. Should the EU commission wish to carry on their neo-kantian vision of cosmopolitianism, well.... that's fine and good luck with it I really hope it works out for you..whoever "you" finally become.
What facts? Over what time span...? Are you predicting future facts based on a political mantra handed out by a political elite who's sole purpose is to maintain an illusion of unity? Please lets not use the word "fact" where politics and politicians are concerned.
I know that phrase but I don't think it fits here. Going by that the 'deal' would almost certainly be No Deal. There is no agreement. Corbyn has said he will vote in favour of a deal which includes various things like joining the customs union. That basically is what May has a choice of. Voting to extend article 50 is what people who do not approve of a Second Referendum, approve of. According to the Guardian John McDonald has said that he supports a second Referendum if no deal. Those are the two alternatives we would appear to have to No Deal. Like it or not this vote with a tiny majority 2 years ago in the country, has No Majority for how it is to be accomplished. There will be no agreement. Hence No Deal. What business apparently wants most of all is that it is made clear No Deal will not happen. If you believe that Parliament voting not to have No Deal means it will not happen you are mistaken. If Parliament do not come to an agreement, then it is No Deal. I do not have a blitz spirit about deliberately putting the UK in this situation - a situation that the Government is thinking may have such repercussions that they can be used as an excuse to bring in Martial Law and a situation in which economists see us losing out on year after year after year, which will put us in massive austerity and where there is zero guarantee we will ever get out of that situation. So, not wanting No Deal is the one thing Parliament is agreed on but that will not on its own stop it. What will is either extending article 50, with amendments as to how to go from there or possibly another Referendum. Otherwise it is putting us into a situation where we wake up one morning with all our trade deals gone as if we had been in rip van winkle land since the 70's and have woken up to a world in which we have no relationships. The Eton Brexiteers want No Deal because they believe that that will make the EU come running and do anything they want but I have heard the EU has decided to accept it's loss which it will soon get over and give the UK the hardest possible time which they believe will really hurt us and put anyone else off playing this game, especially when there is as in the UK not a clear majority in favour of anything. Unlike the ordinary citizens of the UK the No Deal Tory Brexiteers have nothing to lose and have already moved their assets - it would not even surprise me if they hope to make a bob or two out of us suffering.
Democratically decided? True, I've never denied ... but who cast off his vote on the basis of believed lies ... and that Farrage and Johnson and a few others from their movement have lied heavily to the British population is indisputable fact ... and then finds out that he would otherwise have voted ... well ... what can I say? Take this bold lie on the famous red bus as an example: First of all, it was not £ 350 million paid weekly to Brussels, but only £ 280 million ... but OK, let's just leave it at 350 million! More importantly, where is it told on this bus that 66% of it = £ 230 million are remitted directly from Brussels back to London ... and so London only is about what to do with this money, eh? And of course nothing about that only the UK has this privilege of getting always 66% directly back in the EU, eh? I personally know 5 Britons who voted for Brexit and believed that BS on the bus as the truth and were horrified when I showed them the real facts! I do not know if they would vote for the Brexit all 5 again ... but all 5 are definitely angry and feel fooled about the Brexit Clowns ...! So don't be so "fast and furious" about these opinion my friend ... Indeed ... only a community is strong in the world and lone fighters outside the big 3 go under ... Maybe it will be good for you with em Brexit, it is granted to you ... but woe if not and you make then responsible for the EU! You mean such politician facts like the bullcrap on the red bus at the the picture on the top above?
Why not? You’ve not proposed doing anything different but you’re expecting a different outcome. If Article 50 was just extended for another year, why would next year turn out any different to last year and how would we be in any different a situation than we are in right now when March 2020 rolled around? Yes, though that’s an active choice by the politicians. The point is that if this deadlock couldn’t be resolved over the last 18 months, what makes you imagine more time would change anything? It’s not “Blitz spirit”, just realism. There is no outcome that won’t be problematic and messy and I see no benefit in delaying the inevitable. A longer period of constant dispute and uncertainty could even make the long term consequences even worse. That wasn’t what the petition you linked says, it’s just about an opened ended extension and some wishy-washy hope that we can come up with something better. If you can come up with an actual concrete plan to improve the situation then by all means propose that and if that plan required an extension of article 50 that’d be fine. My point is that an extension isn’t a plan on its own. I’m unfortunately not convinced there is such a plan. A second Referendum requires a question (or questions) and I doubt even that could be definitively agreed on. Whatever the question, I’d expect a slightly lower turnout and a similarly balanced result, leaving us in pretty much the same situation. Ultimately Parliament (specifically not only the government) needs to stand up to its responsibilities for once. They have to reach agreement on something and that’s unlikely to be exactly what any of them (or significantly, any of their most vocal voters) would like in a perfect world but you can’t always get what you want. That’s the difficult role they were elected (and are well paid) to do though.
Oh please lets not deal in the banalities of verbal masturbation carried on by politicians on the hustings...jesus christ that's why we are in this situation! Its not just in the UK its on the continent as well everyone is being sold bullshit! The UK joined a free trade agreement in 1973 and look where we are now! Some faux dream of economic might and international stature supposedly capable of standing up to an uncertain world.... don't make me laugh....The USA and Russia have just scrapped the INF treaty and basically stated the re-engagement of the development of intermediate nuclear weapons. Does the prospect of conflicting strategic alliances within the EU make you feel that the EU can stand up to such pressures...and Germany...going to sit this one out again are you.... atomkraft nein danke...again?? Putin has slipped his dick down Germany's throat and you guys are swallowing it and saying "thank you!" France is buggered 5 ways from Sunday and Greece and Italy are...well.....just Greece and Italy.... just the usual economic basket cases they always were. And all the other european economic and social basket cases all just lining up lifting your bra up and sucking on the tits of Germany's cash. Please don't tell me everything is just a bowl of roses in the EU. And the whole thing is governed and run by an inept secretariat that has no skin in the game just fat paychecks and even fatter pension schemes - people whose job is to do whats best for some bastardised political consensus based on a majority of dysfunctional backward "European" countries. No mate you cling to your puritanical vision of a United Europe forging its version of liberal morality in a world that is becoming more and more unstable. Do you remember the film Animal House...the last scene where the college fraternities had the parade down mainstreet and the Delta lads brought out their mean machine? They started to create mayhem and there was one guy standing in the midst of utter carnage say "keep calm....all is well"....mate....that's Europe. Delusional in the face of reality.
Oh, it is something different to No Deal. As I put on but then took off, the much more intelligent response is 'if in doubt do naught'. To take you country into a situation which suggests the break up of the Union and possibly civil war, a situation where it is expected there will be a lack of some essential medications, Supermarkets expecting their shelves to be empty and when a reduced choice of food does get in the prices to be higher hurting those with little the most, the economic outlook looking dire and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that will improve, rather economists see it continuing declining over the years, when our only hope of salvation will be becoming the US everlasting poodle (which admittedly will not last long with human extinction) itself sounds like the grossest insanity. We do not know what the situation would be and I will say again this is not necessarily the choice I would make. I will tell you, you can choose to make the choice to take us there but be well aware that is your responsibility and you must take that responsibility. I put the link in for people who may feel moved to sign it. I received it from Diem 25.
It’s not offering anything different, it’s offering the same thing a year later. If there’s no concrete plan to actually improve the situation, there’s no point in delaying the inevitable. Your somewhat negative predictions for the future aren’t altered by a delay so if we really can’t agree on a way forward to avoid that possibility, we need to work out how best to mitigate the problems and take advantage of the opportunities (and that in itself could be a plan which justifies some fixed-term delay). To be fair, you didn’t offer any commentary in your OP so it seems perfectly reasonable to take it that you were supporting and promoting the petition. I can do very little. As I said, it’s on parliament to take its responsibility, which can include doing what’s right rather than what’s popular. This is exactly why we have representative government in the first place.
Oh please ... As already said at the beginning ... if you want to go, then go, I really do not care! But stop talking about this bullcrap: your whole economy wants to continue to participate freely in the European Single Market, without tariffs etc.! OK, then that needs a contract that covers everything or, as in Norway and Turkey, only parts of a free trade, etc. But with everything you want to export to the EU single market, the EU rules and regulations are to be followed ... without if, but and when! And it also means that you Brits have to make sure that you do not import anything and then export directly to the EU, which does not suit things! Your "great" Theresa May was not able to negotiate the final agreement, as it should be, but it was clear that there should be no customs barriers. So hence the agreement as it is regarding the dispute with Ireland and the border. The EU has made it clear that you can talk about it to prevent the "no deal", but then the EU is asking what and how you want it to have a political majority! You have not done that yet, but from all political corners comes only what and how you do not want it! Hello? Where is the EU something to blame here if your politicians are so stupid ... and instead of dealing with this very important question, after one of the Brexit Comedy Shows of Westminster, directly for hours, discuss how high the slot in mailboxes of Royal Mail must be! In short: The EU asks you Brits "what do you want and demand with majority about Ireland border issue?" ... We wait for answer from you WHAT DO YOU WANT! And please do not come with North Stream, it's getting ridiculous. It is our decision not only to secure gas supply security from one or two sides, but from many sides, and if one side ... which accounts for 30% of our demand ... Russia is with North Stream, then that's the case and our decision and all others have only to accept it. And yes ... of course, the politicians lie and cheat everywhere in all countries, especially before elections ... has always been like that. But here at your Brexit vote you were simply fooled by Farrage and Johnson!
ATTENTION! Irony follows: Add it up to a British tradition of uniting every parliamentary election with a Brexit referendum. Then you even have 4 years instead only 2 years to argue about the result in Westminster as now ...
I am a born and bred American, knowing very little about any of this, but whatever the question to be referred to the plebiscite, I would predict one hell of a turnout. There is only one small ever so selfish silver lining I see to this self induced Brexit mess. Whatever potential for British sanctimony towards the American institutions of governance after Donald Trump's election, must be bashfully muted by what this sorry escapade tells us all about the health and vibrancy of British institutions of governance. Lol Neither side of the Atlantic can afford a braggart's sense of superiority in the late days of this decade. We have both screwed ourselves big time, thanks to the willful ignorance of respective voters and the political cowardice of our representative classes. I didn't think I would get over the international shame of having elected that orange coiffed moron as we did, but you have sufficient numbers of idiots over there stripped bare by Brexit, that I need not feel as embarrassed about ours! There won't be any lectures or pontificating on either side of the pond.
I'm with the majority view here - delaying article 50 is pointless. The debate could continue to the heat death of the universe but there'll never be a majority in favour of any one single course of action. There are also significant procedural issues to address, not least running European elections - it isn't going to happen. There are only two possible outcomes IMO, No Brexit or no-deal Brexit. The latter is the default and the latter is what we will end up with despite it not being what all the 48% who voted Remain wanted and a significant proportion of the 52% who voted Leave. A second referendum is impossible and won't solve anything. Britain will just have to leave the EU with no deal and handle the consequences. Maybe the Brexiteers will be right and having to deal with our major trading partners on terms that are at best the same, and likely far worse will somehow act as a massive catalyst to the UK economy. Then again, maybe people like Dyson, Bamford and Rees-Mogg will stand to gain significantly from their offshore investments whilst enjoying the low-tax, low-regulation, low-wage environment which many have suggested will be Britain's way of being competitive post-Brexit.
Oh, I’m sure it’d be decent. The Brexit Referendum had about 72% but I’d expect a second referendum would be less popular, especially if there is controversy over the choice of question. Any result would likely be close and isn’t going to actually change any minds so the whole thing wouldn’t be any more definitive than the first one.
Man who looks like a paedophile and needs a hair cut exposes the "people's vote" con: Face it: you lost, suckers.
