Now heres an idea...

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by billy the kid, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    What if...
    What if...
    What if they introduced legislation, or even considered it....anyone on unemployment benefits...newstart..or whatever its called...once you get a job, you start paying back your benefits....Im sure the left would knock that on the head....wouldnt get past the first reading...
    But it wouldnt certainly make people get off their arse and actually get a job....
    Maybe our politicians are just too stupid to think of a curve ball like that.....
    If a beneficiary is overpaid, they have to pay it back, usually at 10% per payday of their benefits....why not pay a percentage of the total benefit received when the beneficiary gets a job. There is a similar sceme with HECS why not extend it to benefits....
     
  2. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    There is 800 000 on NewStart, plus maybe 200 000 unemployed but don't qualify for NewStart and possibly about 50 000 in transition, ie leaving a position to take up another.

    So at any one time there would be over a million looking for work and I think you will find that there are usually only about 200 000 vacancies at any one time.

    There is a group of probably around 300 000 that through many circumstances are on the wrong path and don't have much hope of much more than low paid menial work.

    The problem is low wages and big business moving manufacturing off shore and even a lot of services.

    Companies and banks and government departments think nothing of putting of thousands of workers if costs become too high and think nothing of putting in technology to increase productivity while maintaining or decreasing staff numbers.

    Solving unemployment is a lot more complicated than saying "get off your r's and get a job"
     
  3. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    The phrase I used "get off your........" is probably a bit out of line...I can cop that....
    The rest of your post I agree with..I didnt realise the numbers were that high....
    However, be that as it may, HECS bills need to be repaid according to the government.
    In reality, one could say that the government gives a student unemployed benefits whilst gaining
    their degrees to support themselves (but such benefit is called HECS HELP)
    If HECS needs repaying, why not UB..just a thought....
     
  4. TexMexChef

    TexMexChef Well-Known Member

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    They do. As new hires head back to work, their employer is paying into the UI fund as part of their labor cost.

    Your good idea is already hard at work.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  5. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    There is going to be unemployed for ever and it's going to increase unless we do a lot of restructuring.
    I remember around 1970 I found myself out of work. A friend told me about the dole. I had to go to the sheriffs office between 10 and 12 on a Tuesday to get a form which one filled in and handed back in.
    There was plenty of work but then technology like we have today never existed.
    Today even things that were built by hand by tradesmen are mass produced. Take kitchens and things like that.
    Most women stayed home except in certain jobs but today a "stay at home" mum is the exception.
    Not being sexist it's what was happening in those days.
    Shops were filled with staff there were no Bunnings, Kmart or Hardly Normals.
    Woolies employed people to carry your groceries to the car and service was important.
    We created unemployment as we clawed our way up to higher living standards ... for some. Nothing is without cost.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  6. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Donor

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    They've probably thought of it but don't want to risk the wrath and gnashing of teeth of the loony left by implementing it - they'd go ballistic.
     
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  7. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    Is that in the US...we dont have it here in Oz
     
  8. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    We couldn't do this in Australia.
    They've probably thought of it but don't want to risk the wrath and gnashing of teeth of the loony right by implementing it - they'd go ballistic
     
  9. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    You guys will get censored using that naughty L word....
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  10. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't be the first and probably not the last time.
     
  11. Violet_Crumble

    Violet_Crumble Member

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    One of my brothers was On Newstart, Believe me, he didn't want tobe on it and fought tooth and nail for themto pay him anything. For the many hours he spent on the phone with Centrelink, if he charged them for his time, then after the Newstart payment they'd still owe him money,

    I've worked every day of my life since I left school and. my taxes go to pay for Newstart. I don't want a system like the US where there's little to no safety net for those who fall on hard times, Newstart is pretty pissy. I wouldn't want to have to turnto it and those less well off shouldn't have to repay the benefits ino
     
  12. robot

    robot Active Member

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    Long term unemployment would not even try to look for work. They would be paying back the dole forever. So no incentive to even look for work. In fact to reduce unemployment one option is to do the reverse - pay employers to employ the long term unemployed. Then they learn what it takes to be employed. And some of them just need a chance. This scheme will give them that.

    But the real answer to unemployment is, as LeftRightLeft gets close to saying, increase the demand for labour.
     
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  13. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    The Fed government pays employers a subsidy if they employ the long term unemployed.
     
  14. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would it? If people aren’t really trying hard to get work, this would discourage them further and give them more incentive to remain unemployed, certainly over taking low-paid or short-term jobs. The people already actively looking for work but who haven’t yet got one will be punished by your policy when they do. I also suspect that much as in the UK, a lot of people on income support in Australia will be working, albeit on low pay and/or hours.

    In general, reality is much more complex than you give it credit for.
     
  15. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    OK, we'll just leave it as a never ending handout....
     
  16. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    We have to address the issue and I feel to fix it will take some big changes .

    Every since we climbed down from the tree and picked up a stick to defend ourselves or get food we have been making tools.
    The wheel, the machine, steam etc.

    All through time we have invented and engineerd ways to make or do more things faster, easier and cheaper.

    Soon bus drivers, taxi drivers and train drivers will be gone. 3D printing will improve, redefining manufacturing even more. Industrialization and increase in technology in third world countries is adding pressure to employment.

    We either need to alter our work practices or accept a growing number of unemployed and find a fairer way to distribute wealth.

    There is always a retirement on "The Island" plan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because those are literally the only two possible options to address the issues of unemployment and reliance on benefits?
     
  18. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    Let's look at wheat. Once it was cut with a scythe, bundled up, loaded onto wagons and taken to be threshed. Then it would be bagged and loaded onto lorries to go to the mill. Dozens of workers and weeks of work.

    Today a contractor comes in with a ginormous machine that cuts and threshes it and loads it directly to a semi. It's all done in a few days by a few men.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  19. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

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    Give them incentive.

    Only two things I know that give a human incentive. One is fear and the other money. Since our society would frown upon any fear related incentive, I guess that leaves money.

    now I am not proposing more money, in fact less money. Less disposable cash that is. They are given a card that they are able to use in their local communities for essentials. Then a small balance in cash for limited personal purchases.

    Don’t worry about all the noise about demeaning the individual, that in itself was once the incentive to find a job.

    The card could control the ridiculous waste on rubbish purchases whilst also spreading income throughout the local community. All this and the lack of cash to purchase rubbish like grog, ciggies, and drugs for example might just be the incentive they need to join the workforce. And if not........ at least it cleans up the issue of parents spending the money on themselves and then going to community charity groups for food for the kids.
     
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  20. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    I remember bumping into an acquaintance some years ago who told me he was on workers comp. In those days it was full salary, dont know what it is now. He said he received a letter telling him that the wc would continue initially for six months, whereupon his payments would then reduce by 50%.
    After being absent from the workforce for six months he then went back to work.
    Curiously, he had suddenly made a full recovery coinciding with the date the 50% reduction in payments which was about to occur.
    We all know why he went back to work now dont we....
    There was a stink some time ago about beneficiaries knocking back jobs that were too far to travel to each day. From memory, they decided that two hours there and back was reasonable ( four hours travel daily), and anything longer than that, the bean counters would allow the beneficiary to knock back the job.
    All Ive suggested in this thread is simply a thought bubble, so to speak, and we all know that politicians release thought bubbles from time to time, just to gauge the peons reaction. If the rumour comes back that its unpopular, they shelve it....
    Surfers on the Gold Coast have been known to share a house together and split the rent so as it becomes extremely cheap to live..then they spend several months, or longer surfing all day whilst on benefits...
    It then becomes a lifestyle choice until they are mature enough to change it...unless they get too much sand in their brain, and they never change...
    I think the whole issue is placed in the politicians too hard basket, and not enough field work is done by the bean counters to actually discover why people voluntarily spend some much time on benefits, rather than seeking work...its not always lack of work, or low wages etc..although there is a school of thought that
    people should work for peanuts, just to get off benefits, with the thought that any opening could lead to better things...
    No Im not a shrink, but did work in Centrelink for three years, so know a bit about the system....and how its manipulated by some...others just cant get a job..no matter how hard they try...for one reason or another.
    I think diversification recruitment is a serious problem, and I will start a thread on this subject asap...
     

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