NYT: 2,000 ventilators in federal stockpile don't work because of a maintenance lapse

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Andrew Jackson, Apr 2, 2020.

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  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    bad ventilators now means less then, and now Trump is saying they do not even want to help the states... maybe you should stop supporting Trump
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
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  2. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    The ventilators just need an inspection and recharge. They aren't damaged. I answered your question so why didn't you answer mine? What does that have to do with the status of the ventilators in question now?
     
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  3. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    And EVERYBODY knows this, as it is universally accepted.
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I answered your question, just cause you did not like the answer, doesn't mean I did not answer it
     
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  5. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    I went over this in another thread. I repair ventilators for a living, and I researched the particular model vent in question.

    The batteries were old and dead, and they needed to be replaced.

    Swapping out the batteries and testing 170 units is something I could do myself in about two days, for a few thousand bucks. Two techs, and we could do it in a single day. All the techs in my shop, and we'd have them ready in just a few hours, less time than has been wasted on bitching at Trump about it.

    If it was up to me, I would've stored the units without batteries, and installed fresh batteries when the units were needed. Batteries stored inside units for long periods will sometimes swell and burst and leak and ruin the equipment.

    It's a quick and simple process to slap new batteries in the units and give them a quick check. Like I said, two techs can do 170 machines in a day.

    This is a non-story AKA fake news.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  6. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    No you didn't. You avoided it. I would guess by your non answer that has nothing to do with the status of the ventilators in question right now. It has everything about manufacturing some kind of poutrage about "orange man bad" kinda crap. And since nobody has made a claim that anyone hasn't been denied a ventilator in the whole freaking country then it's not an issue at this point. It's just something else to bitch and hyperventilate about that really made no difference at all about anything.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  7. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    “Agiliti was initially awarded the DSNS contract to perform maintenance on the LTV national ventilator stockpile on September 30, 2019. Within days, the prior government contractor filed a formal protest of the contract award. DSNS issued Agiliti an immediate stop work order, and the contract was terminated to facilitate a formal review by DSNS. The contract was subsequently re-awarded to Agiliti and took effect on January 24, 2020.”
    https://www.oaoa.com/news/business/article_160c8d5b-d267-5265-8321-900fa51791f9.html
    https://www.phe.gov/about/sns/Pages/sustaining.aspx

    Sorry, but the problem predated the existence of the virus in question. The formal review process; If Congress does not like the formal review process, they can pass a fracking law. Trump had nothing whatsoever to do with the formal review process.

    http://rc.rcjournal.com/content/respcare/53/1/91.full.pdf

    Where is the PDF on DSNS guidelines for formal review? NEW YORK TIMES?
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I answered it, sorry if you can't see that
     
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  9. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Why did the government purchase ventilators that are not reliable during storage in the first place?

    It's time to bring all production back to the USA and perfect these things.

    But just watch interest in ventilators wane when the crisis is over and a reliable stockpile of ventilators for the next big plague is only another federal budget item that'll get low priority -- because the need will be zero then.
     
  10. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    This thread is proof of how liberals suffer from bad education.
    External battery not being charged does not mean the ventilator is bad or broken.
    Even if external battery is bad - finding another battery of similar voltage and amps isn’t that hard.
    An external battery can be easily eliminated if you buy a power supply with output matching that of a battery and hook it up to the contacts that were meant for the battery.
    If you can’t find power supplies - open a physics book for 10th grade, find formula on how to make transformers, buy two wires of different thickness, feed wire thickness, input and output voltage/amps into the formula in the physics book and you’ll come up with the number of loops on each side. Making transformers even in home environment is easy. After transformer is done all you need is 1 diode and 1 capacitor. Those could be found at Amazon, Hobby Lobby, Microcenter, lots of other online stores and even in old equipment that is being trashed.

    Maybe entire staff of CNN should be fired and sent back to high school? They shouldn’t be allowed to incite panic and hysteria like this.
     
  11. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    The vents are fine, it's the batteries that are the weak link. There's no such thing as batteries that are reliable during storage. It's a thing that just doesn't exist. Batteries have a finite shelf life even if they're kept on charge.

    Batteries in life-support medical equipment should get swapped out every 2 years, and 4 years is about as long as you can push it. The ventilators in question were around a 2010 vintage, so, without maintenance/swap out, the batteries would've been stone dead before Trump even took office.

    Like I said, it'd be better to store the vents with the batteries removed, and install fresh batteries when the units are needed, which is a quick, cheap, and simple process.

    There is nothing wrong with the ventilators. This is a non-issue AKA fake news.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
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  12. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    It is not how it works. Having worked for startups who developed products of such complexity as ventilators, I've seen otherwise.

    Such a machine goes for about $35,000 and had a yearly service contract for around $2000. A company selling a hundred a month could comfortably support a hundred employees.

    Yet corporate raider types, typically trust fund babies, buy up these small companies and merge several into one, laying off just about every employee and sending the manufacturing over to low wage, low regulated Chinese manufacturing. The Chinese are far more socialist than the "Socialists" you like to pretend liberals and Democrats are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
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  13. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    If they just need an inspection and a charge, what is the holdup?
     
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  14. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    I agree, this is a quick fix. That it is not happening is an administration problem.
     
  15. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    It already happened. It was fixed in a day. People have put a hundred times the time and effort into bitching about it than it took to correct the problem.
     
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  16. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    No holdup. It's already done.
     
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  17. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    No.

    The hospital-grade vents go for tens of thousands of dollars.

    The emergency vents are much simpler units. They're basically souped-up CPAP's and they cost about $4000each.
     
  18. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No need to fire the entire CNN staff. They are committing slow suicide.
     
  19. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    Made a transformer lately? Not sure where you would find a formula for winding a transformer in a tenth grade physics text book.

    Not knowing the set up, it most likely has an arrangement where the battery is trickle charged and is mostly used to ensure a constant current flow. Your crude DC power supply would not be suitable as the voltage swings would be too disruptive.
     
  20. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Here's what we're talking about if anyone is curious.


    GEDvISE (1).jpg

    Cardinal LTV 1200

    Approved by the FDA in 2008 as a "home use" ventilator. This is not a hospital-grade unit, nor does it need to be for emergency/crisis use.

    Probably purchased and stockpiled by FEMA around 2010-2011.

    IMHO, I'd store them with the batteries removed, and not bother with the time and expense of regular maintenance/checkouts. I'd do an initial operational verification, remove the battery, and store them until they were needed. The Pelican cases are great, and they really keep the units from deteriorating.

    When needed, pull them out, install the battery, quick operational check, good to go.

    I would confidently expect them to be viable for around 15 years if stored correctly, and I'd even push that to 20 years before it started getting dicey.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  21. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    Are we not talking about the hospital ventilators where they stick tubes down one's throat and into their lungs?
     
  22. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    I was playing around with transformers when I was a teenager. Had a passion for electronics and circuit boards.
    Figuring out a transformer is easier than many think - you need two rolls of wires close to each other. The intake wires should be thin and there should be a lot more loops. The output wires should be thicker. There is literally a formula that you can use to figure this out.



    For stable voltage you need a good capacitor with higher capacity (relatively speaking). Throw in a couple of fuses and a resistor and you are good to go. Disassemble an old TV or some other piece of electronics that you or your neighbors would be willing to throw away and you’ll have enough parts to make quite a few transformers.
    Any physics major student (or any student who paid attention in physics class) can make these at home.
    Any hospital can find local contractors who’ll make these from scratch on their own.
     
  23. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fact remains one piece of ill advised legislation taxed medical devices. 4 or 5 years later the tax stopped being collected but was not repealed. Trump finally repealed it last year. There is one person in DC who has fought for self-sufficiency and he's stuck doing the heavy lifting to get this globalist virus off the backs of Americans.
     
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  24. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    I too have been playing with motors and transformers since I was a kid. Would it not be easier to just order transformers from an electronics supplier.

    Ever look at the voltage of a DC power supply on an oscilloscope. A simple diode/capacitor arrangement leaves a wavey voltage, that additionally rises and falls under load. It is why sensitive electronic equipment tends to use switching power supplies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  25. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    It would, but if this is a life and death situation to a point where it becomes national news then I’d think local authorities could turn on some brains and figure out the problem instead of blaming federal government for not keeping these devices in hot and ready state for 10+ years.
    The fact of the matter is - the ventilators are not broken. Some of them had a power issue, which is very easy to solve.

    I know that, technically, one can make more transformers to stabilize power (you can even go more exotic and use Raspberry Pi for digital control), but, again, if it’s a life and death situation then it’s better to hook up a homemade transformer with a basic ac-dc converter (which is just a diode + capacitor) to a machine and save a life instead of b!tching about the POTUS at every turn and do nothing but whine.

    My whole point is - this “problem” that became national news could easily be fixed by college students and raspberry pi enthusiasts (I have more than 10 of those myself). Cuomo and CNN seem to be on a quest to turn this whole circus-pandemic into political d!ck measuring contest.
    Anyone who thinks these ventilators are broken or blame federal government should probably come back to school or at least refrain from voting.
     

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