NYT + Trump's tax data...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Kal'Stang, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    I would just like to point out 3 things to all those that demanded to see Trump's tax data or is hollering about Trump about the NYT's hit piece flop.

    First: Trumps Debt: The guy is a real estate investor. Debt is a normal every day occurrence. in such a profession. You buy a piece of property and once the banks allows you to you can take out money from the bank as a loan based on the value of that property. You can then invest that money into another piece of property. Eventually you have two properties in which you can get a loan based on, buy a third, and/or fourth piece of property and so on and so forth. Its literally real estate investment 101. Having debt =/= broke (even the NYT's admitted that he could sell off assets to take care of that debt).

    Second: Trump not having to pay anything federal taxes. Every single corporation does whatever they can to pay little to no taxes. There isn't a single one that doesn't and many pay 0 in taxes year after year. Indeed one of the things that Trump used to not pay taxes was from legislation that passed while Nancy Pelosi was Speaker of the House and Democrats were in control of the House during the Great Recession (read the NYT's article as this is mentioned in it). Trump simply took advantage of it. I'd bet many democrats took advantage of it.

    Third: And this is a major one so pay attention. Don't you think that if there was anything in those tax returns that proved Trump did something illegal (like colluding with Russia or something else) then the New York Times would have lead with that story rather than Trump being in debt and not having to pay taxes? Yet this was their lead? This was the best that they could come up with? Pfft.
     
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  2. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Oh and just to drive the point home a little bit further....

    LINK: 60 of America's biggest companies paid no federal income tax in 2018

    And anyone remember this one...

    LINK: General Electric Paid No Federal Taxes in 2010

     
  3. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Think about this -- a USA citizen refuses to show their income tax return. That is their right. Their return is private and personal. A newspaper claims it has obtained a copy of that return and publishes it. Are you OK with what the newspaper did? If so then you would not complain if the newspaper published your tax return, or maybe even a naked photo of you.
     
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  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    A good point! We aren't talking about someone profiting from their enterepreneurial activity. We are talking about someone profiteering from land. We necessarily are confronted with a realisation that the lack of tax paid is indicative of economic inefficiency.

    A good point! Trump isn't the only recipient of rent. The right wing US perspective has engineered rentier capitalism to the detriment of SMEs.

    A good point! The right wing has legitimised rent seeking behaviour in the US, making a mockery of individualism and the American Dream.
     
  5. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Those tax years included the great recession during with real estate values decreased. While his operating income might have been $100M, for instance, his balance sheet may have shown a loss of $1B, through no fault or control of his own.

    I would really like to see the looks on Democrats faces when Trump depreciates Trump Tower due to the Democrat terrorist attacks and deBlasio's vandalism.
     
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  6. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    The major problem with the NYT story, is that it ignores the Alternative Min Tax.....it's quite possible that the bottom of his 1040 after all the legal deductions showed he only owed 750, but it leaves out the AMT requirements...there is no way he only paid 750

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_minimum_tax
     
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  7. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    ,,, as opposed to his opponent who bragged about profiteering from $1B in USAID to Ukraine to the tune of $83,000 when he was VP. Don't have the video for him selling anti-vibration technology to China, technology that ended up in China's J-20 fighter,

    We won't mention Pelosi walking out of a meeting where she was a party to shutting down brick and mortar retail and ran to the nearest phone to buy shares of Amazon stock. She had practice. During her last stint as speaker, she was invited to participate in the VISA IPO in order for her to hold up swipe fee legislation ,,, tantamount to picking taxpayer's pockets while being paid by those very same taxpayers.

    While Trump may be a nasty entrepreneur, neither he nor his family are taking a dime from taxpayers.

    The above substantiates: In Capitalism, man exploits man. In Socialism, man exploits man. Choose your poison, man.
     
  8. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if it was already pointed out or not, but there is this thing called pre-payment of potential taxes. And, as barely mentioned in the NYTs piece, he did, in the years in question actually pre pay a LOT, Millions in fact. And, because he pre-paid those taxes, there might have been a residual that was relatively small. The NYTs is simply lying when they wrote what they did. And frankly, why everyone doesn't see that is astounding to me.
     
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  9. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Some might even go so far as to suggest that the NYTs participated in a crime. Receipt of illegally obtained tax data, and then sharing of illegally obtained tax data for profit. Gosh... how many NYTs folks might be fashionable this fall in orange?

    ahem.. "It shall be unlawful for any person to whom any return or return information (as defined in section 6103(b)) is disclosed in a manner unauthorized by this title thereafter willfully to print or publish in any manner not provided by law any such return or return information."
    26 U.S. Code § 7213 - Unauthorized disclosure of information
     
  10. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    How might the NYT feel if they found out the Trump Administration had tapped all their phones? What would the NYT staff say if the IRS passed out the tax returns of everyone working at the newspaper?
     
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  11. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would hope the person that did such get arrested, charged and convicted. Everyone has a Right to Privacy. Even the President. Hollywood actors etc etc. I don't even read Hollywood tabloids because of it and can't understand peoples obsessions when it comes to famous people. But I guess as an introvert privacy is paramount.
     
  12. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    So, would you advocate for communism? Where property is owned by everyone?
     
  13. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Not sure inane cliche helps much really. Rent is not a necessary condition in capitalism. Trump is just a poster child for it.
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Bit of a silly question, given communism is an evolutionary economics outcome. Economists have referred to how land owners can be taxed without economic distortion for yonks!
     
  15. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I heard about this. Though I doubt it could be applied to them due to free press & free speech issues if it ever got to SCOTUS. It would probably be under a strict scrutiny rule and as such any such suit would ultimately fail. At least imo.

    That said, I hope they catch the person who released the info to the NYT's and prosecute them to the fullest extent possible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  16. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    You didn't answer the question. Would you advocate for communism? I'll add to it. If you don't advocate for it then what is your suggestion? Limit how much land a person can own perhaps? Ban rentals? What?
     
  17. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Rent is necessary for the human condition however. Or do you have a better idea?
     
  18. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    The law is actually pretty clear on this. Fines, prison time, etc. And for the NYTs, there isn't a condition in the 1st amendment that overcomes the privacy concerns of citizens who haven't personally disclosed this information. The regulations here are very straight forward on what constitutes the illegal disclosure and this clearly sits will inside of that fence. The NYTs likely know this but did it anyway to attempt an October surprise. The fact that their disclosure is entirely illegal didn't seem to give them pause at what likely will be a reelection of the president anyway.
     
  19. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    If everybody paid no tax the USA would collapse economically.

    Perhaps Putin put Agent Orange up to it to bring down the USA.
     
  20. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    Rush your evidence to fat Billy Barr.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  21. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

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    I'm 100% fine with this. The individual in question has made public claims on various topics relating to his tax returns that are now being refuted with his own documentary evidence.

    For example, hypothetically, if Dirty Donnie claimed that he had never been with a prostitute and a newspaper published a video of him getting pissed on by Russian prostitutes, I would be completely fine with that.
     
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  22. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    Trump professed to be willing to publish his tax returns but did not do so and is fighting furiously in the court to prevent release. Donald Trump's claims that he is willing to publish his tax retuns would invalidate any action in the legal system against those who published the information.

    Fat Billy Barr is not even getting out of bed over this one.
     
  23. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    It might be a law, but that doesn't mean that it would be Constitutionally allowed to punish anyone working at the NYT's for publishing this. The law doesn't always coincide with the Constitution. Also your right to privacy does not mean that the press cannot ever post anything private about you. In fact they often post private information.

    Remember, the 1st Amendment and the Right to Privacy in the Constitution is about restricting the government. Not private corporations or individuals.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
  24. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    If Democrats hadn't crashed the economy and with it the value of real estate, he wouldn't have lost money in years his operations were profitable. He should be able to write off the intentional damage Cuomo did by keeping his state shuttered and deBlasio did by joining his terrorists in vandalizing the entrance to Trump Tower.

    Biden was a party to writing the tax code that allowed Trump to write off depreciation against income from his operations.Perhaps you should take it up with the Democrats and their fellow swamp creatures.
     
  25. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps. I would suggest the actual law as cited indicates that publishing of the federal tax information is in fact criminal absent consent. I would assert that the US code is purposefully calling out what the NYTs did here as being illegal. That isn't a privacy concern at that point, it's a legal standard for conduct of how IRS data is being disclosed. Much like espionage or other kinds of government restrictions, this is the assertion of governmental prerogative and not personal privacy.
     

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