NZ Pleading To The U.S. NRA/ILA Members For Assistance

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Well Bonded, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sadly these folks in Kiwiland failed to push-back when the anti-gunners came after them in the beginning, they now realize they need something like the ILA, as they are being steamrolled into no private gun ownership what so ever.

    Too little, too late, they are screwed.

    New Zealand has become quite the hot mess for gun owners. Not only has the government gone after gun owners, forcibly confiscating firearms, but it seems at least one big sporting goods chain in Kiwiland has sided with the government against gun owners.

    Not only that, but according to one gun owner we’ve spoken to, Hunting & Fishing New Zealand acts as a bully to hang their wholesalers/distributors out to dry. How do they do that? They threaten to cut off wholesalers and distributors from business in their 37-store chain. As there’s only a single importer, it’s not like the marketplace has alternative sources for guns and gear for their stores.

    I have a request. We have more problems here than people realize. We are getting hit with bottle necking. We have been cut off from permits. They exist, but the government will not issue them. No law change needed. The courier services and postal service have stopped transporting rifles or anything related to them.

    There is one area in particular where you guys can help us. Our gun retailers, our largest ones, have betrayed us. They supported the ban, and they actively encouraged the government to go further, with an online sales ban. This is purely to drive people into their stores. The main culprit is [the] Hunting and Fishing [chain]. Have a look at their prices. Both them, and the small number of wholesalers make more money on a rifle than the American company that built it. We are being gouged, severely.

    I was talking to a local independent gun store yesterday. I have heard this hundreds of times. He gave me a good price on a rifle, but made me swear to secrecy. The reason is, with a phone call, Hunting and Fishing will have him cut off from the wholesaler. There is a group within New Zealand who hold a monopoly on gun imports, also ammo and powder, scopes, everything.

    Not only have they betrayed us in this round of legislation, but they will not let the gun ownership grow. They shut down all the independent gun stores and the keep prices sky high. This is illegal in New Zealand, but obviously for shooting, this is not enforced.

    Now their monopoly and control comes from their connections in the states. No one else in New Zealand can become an importer, because of the close relationship between this group and the suppliers in America. We need the NRA to bust this up. It has to stop. The NRA and American gun owners have the influence to put an end to this. We really need it, as without growth, we are doomed.

    Hey, it's not the NRA-ILA's problem to help you out at our expense, too bad you bent over and took it, without saying no, never again, like we do here.

     
    Bondo likes this.
  2. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    1) Not my circus not my monkeys. They're going to need to fix their own nation.
    2) The NRA isn't exactly anti gun control these days
     
  3. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not quite sure what you mean by that statement.
     
  4. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    What seems confusing about it? They're not really about (as in very much supporting of) anti gun control these days.
    They asked for red flags, the bumpstock ****ery, never fought the Hughes amendment etc et al.

    If you want help against gun control, there are better orgs to beg for aid. Orgs that actually want to fight gun control
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  5. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Incorrect.

    The NRA’s position on emergency risk protection orders (ERPOs) has recently been mischaracterized by some who haven't taken the time to understand our position, including the anti-gun mainstream media and organizations that purport to support the Second Amendment. Many of the individuals mischaracterizing our position are using misinformation to simply attack the NRA.

    https://www.nraila.org/get-the-facts/emergency-risk-protection-orders-erpos/

    For a good reason.

    This week, the Department of Justice announced that it would soon be releasing a final rule classifying “bump-stock-type-devices” as “machineguns” under the National Firearms Act.

    These devices came to national attention in October 2017 after the horrific attack in Las Vegas. As multiple media accounts correctly pointed to at the time, there was overwhelming legislative support for proposals that went far beyond these specific devices and some that could have potentially jeopardized all semiautomatic firearms. Rather than sit back and watch a legislative over-reaction, the NRA asked Congress to let ATF review its prior determinations on bump fire stocks.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/20181221/nra-statement-on-bump-fire-stock-rule

    Never had a chance to.

    The Hughes Amendment

    In 1986, to reaffirm Congress's intent in passing the GCA and prevent improper law enforcement by BATF, Congress approved the Firearms Owners' Protection Act (FOPA).7 Near the end of debate on the measure, late at night with most members of the House of Representatives absent, Rep. William Hughes (D-N.J.) introduced an amendment related to fully-automatic firearms. Despite an apparent defeat of the amendment by voice vote, Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.), at the time presiding over the proceedings, declared the amendment approved. Hughes and Rangel were longtime "gun control" supporters.

    https://www.nraila.org/articles/19990729/fully-automatic-firearms

    Maybe you should try getting the facts correct before tossing out fictitious claims.
     
  6. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    lol didn't read your link again huh chief?


    "In addition, the NRA opposes any effort to create a federal ERPO law, in which federal agents would be tasked with seizing firearms after a hearing in federal court. As states consider ERPO laws, the NRA will continue to push for the inclusion of strong due process protections.

    The NRA believes that any effort should be structured to fully protect the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens while preventing truly dangerous individuals from accessing firearms.

    The requirements of an ERPO process that the NRA could support should include the following:"

    ^ ERPO involves an ex parte proceeding to take your rights. ERPO is unconstitutional so what if you get a hearing after they've ****ed with you? All ERPO's on record meet the criteria they list, that doesn't make them ****ing constitutional

    So rather than fight gun control, it.... asked for more... harder daddy! Yeah buddy they're reallllllllllllllllllll stiff about fighting gun control implementation. That's why they told the president to just change a statutory definition by executive FIAT rather than actual amendment of the applicable statute. Sure. That's why they've opened us up to the next DEM president simply rewriting any definition that doesn't agree with them. Because they're a valuable organization that protects my gun rights by... lubing up their holes and mine and begging to be tread upon....

    You realize that the Hughes amendment could've been challenged constitutionally in the intervening years....... right? Not only on its face (which is blatantly unconstitutional as an arbitrary and capricious limitation on a constitutional right) but also using the actual VIDEOTAPED RECORD OF RANGEL NOT ABIDING BY THE VOICE VOTE?
    You realize they could've tried to even raise a stink of some sort and did nothing?
    And have done nothing. For more than 30 years? You understand this?
     
  7. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I guess you didn't.

    Incorrect, as the NRA supports it, it is the same process that can strip a felon of his right to bear arms.

    Total BS.

    Then do it.

    For what reason?

    So they can be painted by media as supporting machine guns for school kids.
     
  8. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    I did actually which is why I know it doesn't help your position.

    Being convicted of a felony would do that. No other process needs be gone through, the conviction does all the work. Yet more evidence you don't know what you're talking about.

    I mean... its demonstrable fact but you feel free to deny reality and substitute your own. The president can now redefine terms that are given other explicit definitions as part of the statute by the stroke of a pen. Good job NRA!! Way to protect my rights!!!
    Said no one ever.

    Sure, let me just use the vast resources of cash at my disposal donated by people who expected me to live up to all my promises about being an organization dedicated to protecting gun rights through legislative action and litigation.
    O wait........ I'm not a vast organization that keeps selling people on the idea that I'll protect their rights and then just pockets the money....
    Gosh.... that's going to make things difficult.

    Ballpark it for us: how much does it cost to get a case to SCOTUS?

    So they can defend the right to keep and bear arms..... like you claim they do.
    Thanks for playing Elmer Fudd.

    Fudd.jpg
     
  9. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And the same process would be used to prohibit a person who is a danger to themselves or others the ability to possess firearms.

    Or are you supporting the idea such people should be allowed access to firearms?

    Total BS the president has nothing to do with the process.

    If membership demands it leadership will do it, it's quite obvious membership is not demanding such and you not being a member have no say in the matter either way.

    If you cannot put your money where your mouth is then put a lid on it.

    That's for you to solve, you are the one complaining not I.
     
  10. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Hint: Its not the same process, else they would simply use the existing process.
    Is this your first time analyzing a statute or political operations in general? I remember my first beer.

    The President has nothing to do with an Executive Order or the actions and decisions of one of the agencies that is part of the Executive branch? albatross.jpg

    The membership has asked they uphold their initial promises and advertising about how they'll uphold your gun rights. The membership has been clamoring for DECADES for something to be done. Ask some of the proud (and some no longer proud) NRA members here about it. I know I'm no stranger to the discussions.

    I'd be willing to put my money down, and have for other orgs, thing is just my money ain't enough. The NRA has plenty though, and took it in ostensibly to protect gun rights.... something they're not doing by your own explicit admission.

    I'm going to take that as your "Gee Reality I have no ****ing clue how much it would cost I'm just going to sit here with my dick in my hand" answer.
     
  11. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's obvious you didn't read the NRA's position as they will only support the same process used in a criminal trial, which requires evidence.

    As for using the same process if you had a clue about laws you would understand it doesn't exist in many states.

    Nope I have been working with 2nd issues for four decades now and understand the process way better than you ever will.

    Which has nothing to do with the subject, get it?

    Back that up with some proof or put a lid on your lies.

    What kind of nonsense it that???

    More BS on your part and by the way it is not the NRA who lobbies for gun rights, which is even more evidence you are clueless about the NRA.

    Hey if that is as close to holding on to reality you have, go for it, it's very perverted, but go for it.
     
  12. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Uh bud, they want clear and convincing evidence as the standard, not beyond a reasonable doubt. So YES I did read it, and YES I do understand it, and NO you do not understand it and I sort of doubt you even read it.

    That is not encouraging.

    Since the bumpstock **** is by executive fiat? Its got everything to do with it .

    I'll let whomever feels like chiming in and being subjected to discussion with you act as they feel like it.
    You know calling another forum member a liar like that can be construed as a violation of forum rules. Its all fine between us sane folks, but let one of the rabids get hold of that post and you may end up with your comment deleted or short ban depending on your point status.

    It means I've donated to other organizations in the past, would be willing to partially finance the contemplated case but do not have sufficient funds to fund it alone. What part of that was unclear dear?

    :rolleyes:Pardon me for using the shorthand NRA rather than the full NRA-ILA. Sue me why don't you? The NRA funds which are applicable to political lobbying a) have plenty of money b) are supposed to be for legislative and judicial action on gun rights c) said members wish used to actually defend gun rights d) getting rid of hughes would be part of c).
     
  13. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Incorrect, the ban was by a BATF interpretation.

    The rest of your post is rambling BS.
     
  14. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...ocks-rifles-into-automatic-weapons/354536002/

    "President Trump signed a memorandum instructing the attorney general to regulate the use of bump stocks, effectively banning the use of the devices that can allow rifles to mimic automatic weapons."

    "
    Moments before, White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said the administration neared completion of a months-long study of the issue.

    "I can tell you that the president supports not having the use of bump stocks," she said. "The president does not support the use of those accessories."

    Trump's memorandum to Sessions directs the Department of Justice to "dedicate all available resources" to completing a review of more than 100,000 comments it received from December through January on a notice of a proposed rulemaking. Trump directed the department to, "as expeditiously as possible," propose for notice and comment "a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns."


    "

    Any more brain busters?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  15. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  16. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    So your response to my demonstrating that you're wrong and trump did move for the bumpstock ban is to link to the recent media forum where he spoke?

    Do you have a point dear?
     
  17. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Truthfully, I'd love to help our Aussie and Kiwi cousins - but we have our own battles to win here, first.
     
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  18. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No kidding, with the unconstitutional threats coming out of the radical anti-gun Democratic presidential hopefuls, we very well could become as screwed over as the Aussies or Kiwi's. should one of them get into power.
     
  19. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You do not understand Australasians, this is a done issue. There will be no debate. You will surrender your weapons or you will be shot.

    Unfortunately, we do not have the history you do. 85% of our population live in major cities. Quite a few people enjoy sport shooting, but due to the culture don't dare share this with the general public. It makes you a target. One of THEM.

    I still think we're not too bad compared to other jurisdictions. We still have handguns and lever actions. Semi-automatic rifles are great and it sucks, but we'll persevere and keep the great tradition of shooting alive.

    For the next couple of decades before a complete ban anyway.
     
  20. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My advice to Australia and New Zealand would be to get themselves rights first. Hard to defend them if all they have are privileges that their government can take away on a whim. That isn't something US organizations can help with...
     
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  21. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A little too late for that, but it should send a clear message to U.S. gun owners to not give up an inch to the anti's and push hard to take back as much as possible.

    Some ideas would be a nationwide must issue carry license, elimination of NFA regulations and a limitation on civil damages that can be invoked by the courts against a person who was involved in a justified shooting.
     
  22. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, those folks didn't have rights, and lost their privileges. The problem I see is that liberals in America are pretending we could simply follow suit, as though our rights are nothing more than cheap privileges. Gun grabbers are willing to ignore the Constitution to get what they want. Every effort of theirs must be opposed...
     
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  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not only opposed but pushed back, they want an assault weapons ban, defeat it and demand national carry, they want high cap mags banned, defeat it and demand limitations on civil lawsuits.

    For everything they want they should not only be defeated, they need to learn we will push for more freedoms every time they try to take away one of our freedoms, put them on the defensive and burn up their funds trying to stop our demands, versus the other way around.

    That's the only way we will win this progressive/socialist "war on freedom."
     
  24. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The courts ruled on the high capacity mags already. The door is open for national concealed carry, that was accomplished with 'gay marriage'. For the most part their lunacy simply can't get through the courts, especially now that the 9th isn't a liberal cesspit with a gavel. I support using our efforts for greater education, safety, and responsible use. But then again, the law abiding citizen isn't and hasn't ever been the problem, and criminals by definition don't really care about the laws...
     
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  25. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nor do the progressive/socialists as they are all in the same bed.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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