Obamacare repeal in the middle of a pandemic???

For once, I agree with you. The medical industry continues to be self regulating, even after Obamacare, which was only designed to address insurance. Health care costs are the major problem, but the AMA has an extremely powerful lobbying group, and politicians dare not opposed it. Competition between physicians or medical groups is strictly forbidden, and patients have no leverage to haggle over their lives and health, so the medical field is an extremely lucrative one, ripe for exploitation.

Pricing agreements between medical providers and insurance companies are the only REAL control we have over costs. . . . Medicare does an excellent job of negotiating pricing.

Hospital bills unpaid by uninsured patients are passed on (at non-negotiated prices) to subsequent patients with insurance, so the insurance companies in turn pass these losses on to the insured. This was part of the reason for the compulsory insurance mandate. The other reason was so that medical care costs might be shared by a greater number of individuals. However, conformance was not anywhere near as hoped for, resulting in higher prices. This, added on to the greed of certain medical providers and their hierarchy, is the real problem.

Are you against mandatory automobile liability insurance?

 

Well of that was it, RED STATES.. I woulda never guessed that answer

 

every GoP healthcare reform bill includes pre existing conditions.

the fact obama biden and the dems potentially created an illegal law, is the issue along wirh the fact the dems have block any attempt at a repalcemen

 

Mandatory liability insurance relates to the damage we may do to others, by careless driving. Medical and automotive are totally different applications for that reason. I support the concept of mandatory auto liability.

 

They weren't rejected by Democrats. They were rejected by Republicans.[/QUOTE]Democrats had total control of the government. Anything that Obama didn't get in his package was entirely because some Democrats didn't vote for it. Republicans couldn't reject anything. We got ACA without a single Republican vote.

CBO estimates of average family savings on premium costs are specious at best. The estimates are extremely hard to make with any accuracy. Plus premium savings does not include higher out of pocket costs or the cutback in medical services due to the high deductibles. Secondly the CBO in the first couple of years relied almost entirely on administration figures which were about as reliable as my old 1949 red Oldsmobile. An example if the extreme looseness of CBO's review of ACA using numbers that are more readily obtainable is the projected federal budget deficit. The very first preliminary estimate showed a 10-yr. deficit decrease. In March 2010 they showed a 10-yr. deficit increase of $124 billion. In Feb 2011 $210 billion. In Mar 2011 a deficit increase of $1.1 trillion. In Feb 2014 a 10-yr. deficit increase of $1.5 trillion, and that included a too high estimate of the receipts from the mandate and other things of about another $200 billion.

 

This is correct.

And many speculate that a repeal will reduce deductibles for the average family. Something that the progressive elites hate with a passion.

 

You are aware that the GOP is in court right now to overturn the ACA. which would allow insurance companies to skirt any future liability for ongoing health issues by declaring Covid a pre existing condition.

Be in no doubt that that is exactly what the insurance industry will do. Nor was it ever in doubt that the GOP has been in their pocket for decades.

 

It might help if you had a basic understanding how insurance companies operate.

 

That's one of the things in which Obama dropped the ball. He could have passed HIS bill in the 10 months that Democrats had total control (except the judicial branch). Instead, he tried to pursue a "consensus" and "sense of unity" . Something that Republicans in Congress were just not interested in. They are partisan career politicians, and they will always be.

Score one against Obama for being naive believing that Republicans care about their country more than about their personal benefit. But what passsed in the end was the Republican healthcare plan. Which is better than nothing, but will have to be completely overhauled within the next 10 years. And this is the main reason why I'm not thrilled about Biden. I don't think he will do what needs to be done in healthcare.

As for the rest, CBO did the best possible to estimate the costs of an extremely complex matter. Considering that, all in all they did a fairly good job. They did it in a non-partisan manner to the best of their abilities on a bill that changed almost by the hour. It's easy to point out mistakes after the fact.

 

My analogy covered IDENTICAL situations. Both involve personal financial responsibility, nothing more. Those of us who have insurance are shouldering the responsibility for the debts of the uninsured in both cases. I feel that we should keep Obamacare and amend it as needed, just as we did with Medicare.

Your criticism of excessive medical costs strongly suggests that you would be in favor of government regulation of pricing.

As an afterthought, the whole GOP resistance to the ACA stemmed from a directive to oppose ALL of Obama's agendas from the moment he took office. To illustrate this, OBAMACARE was the product of bipartisan negotiations of a committee composed of six Democrats and six Republicans. Even though they took part in the conception, all six Republicans voted against it.

 

What I'm in favor of is not price control- it's free enterprise, not burdened by the massive regulations, not being mined by the lawyers who constantly seek ways to sue companies.
The insured are indeed being forced to pay for the uninsured.

If you look at the medical costs in other countries, you can see how ludicrous ours has become. Spain for example, has a quality of care and facilities as good as ours.

If you needed a hip replacement, you might run across something called "medical tourism", which is travel to other countries for such things.
You can get a package deal for a hip job in Spain. Round-trip airfare, hotel, hospital, surgery, recovery, rehab- an all expense included deal.

In the US. a hip replacement would bill will be in the range of $75K. Here's one below for example, the charge was $95,459, the insurance company cut the amount to $77,967.
If you have the typical 20% deductible kind of insurance, your share would be close to $16K. That doesn't include anything outside the listed services.

IF you bought the package deal to Spain, and paid for it out of pocket- you would save a lot, because that package is about $12K total, $4K less than what your deductible would be in the US system.
Whatever the reason is- out system is severely screwed up. We need to FIX what's broken, not band-aid it.

 

. . . But Spain is not free enterprise, it is a single payer system. It is rated seventh in the world by the WHO and it is one of the most successful examples of socialized medicine. Healthcare is absolutely free for residents. Government regulation doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

The biggest problem with these comparisons is the cost. In single payer socialized systems much to most of the cost is picked up by the government (tax payers) and much to most of that cost accounting is hidden in transferred or shifted accounts . A good example is Medicare which ballyhoos its low administrative costs, but that comes from assigning a large percentage of actual costs to other departments, agencies, and to certain contractors outside of CMS.

 

It would seem that if Spain's medical system could offer such a deal to a non-citizen, who would not be inline to benefit from their socialized system.
Surely we could do a lot better than we do; these charges are exponentially crazy. I recently went to the ER for a non-trauma, non-critical issue involving a muscle spasm that wouldn't stop. Less than an hour and a half; mostly waiting. The bill- $13,849.00. About $3K of it was the base charge for coming in the door.

 

Sometimes it's an education when dealing with your posts. Because if I don't know what the factual error you've made is right off the bat, I can educate myself by finding out.

“When I am president, we will have universal health care in this country by the end of my first term in office. It's a plan that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premiums by $2,500 a year.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...2/07/03/gJQAVhk3IW_blog.html?tid=a_inl_manual

That quote came from a 2007 campaign speech. Obviously, we didn't get universal care. We got a compromise reform bill because there was not enough support for universal care. You don't need to thank me for correcting another one of your errors. I rather enjoy doing it.

 

To the contrary a non-citizen does benefit from another countries socialized system. If Spain is charging a US citizen $20,000 for a medical procedure that actually costs $100,000 the Spanish taxpayer is picking up the other $80,000

 

Yea that's reassuring

They has a Senate supermajority for 32 days

Yea...that's a fools errand

 

Except you didn't address or correct a single point or assertion I made. I said the wagon is red. You replied it's raining.

 

Obamacare repeal in the middle of a pandemic???

~ Sure. Why not ? Democrats did an impeachment hearing, went on vacation , invited people to China Town and did an ice cream refrigerator commercial . Republicans should do something too !

 

I haven't researched this, but it would make no sense at all for any country to do that. Not being a Spanish citizen and taxpayer, if the nation started giving away medical service at the expense of taxpayers- well, what you do is the US started paying 80% of the bills out of taxes, and invited everyone in the world to come here for the deal?

 

A country's policies don't have to make sense and often don't. There are candidates today claiming we should allow illegal immigrants to get all the medical care they want........ with your and my money of course.

 

They procedure doesn't "actually cost" $100,000. It costs what it says on the sticker - as Spiritguide said, about $12,000 (or thereabouts - shop around). And that's a private price, profit included. The actual cost will be less than that, by a fair chunk.

 

You're quite right. The Spanish don't pay a single cent toward any private procedures. The price you quoted is a private price, profit included. There would be riots if they were in any way funding private ops. People with universal healthcare systems regard them as "theirs", for their benefit alone, and quite rightly as they're the ones who pay for them.

 

as someone that survived cancer, I sure hope Trump doesn't bring back pre-existing conditions restrictions

 

the sad truth is, Trump will change the SC and will negatively affect this country for years to come, republicans will try to blame it on dems, but just remember the real cause of this change