obama's presidency destroyed the democratic party

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by doombug, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Meybah. Not sure, but I have doubts that anyone can turn their back on the establishment and get away with it. I think Trump has fought harder than most. He is still fighting, even with libs on him every. single. day. over the most mundane bull crap. What about the border?! It's only open so business has more cheap labor.

    So much wrong with this crap country. It's gone to hell since I don't know when. Maybe it always has been? I don't know.
     
  2. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    There's an old adage that states, "Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat its same mistakes." The first midterm election usually is a referendum on the president. Not so much on the congress.
    First midterm house losses: Bush II is the only president since FDR to gain seats in the house. But he had 9-11 happened which unified the country behind him and his party. Bush II abruptly lost 33 seats in 2006, he second midterm.


    Obama lost 63 seats in 2010
    Bush gained 8 seats in 2002 But lost 33 seats in 2006
    Clinton lost 54 seats in 1994
    Bush lost 8 seats in 1990
    Reagan lost 26 seats in 1982
    Carter lost 15 seats in 1978
    Nixon lost 12 seats in 1970
    LBJ lost 47 seats in 1966
    JFK lost 22 seats in 1962
    Eisenhower lost 18 seats in 1954
    Truman lost 28 seats in 1950
    FDR gained 11 seats in 1934.

    Does this mean it will happen to Trump? No, but the probability of significant losses in the house and in governorships are very high. There's a long time to go before next year's midterms. A booming economy could make all the difference. Or a major event like 9-11 could effect the results. I just wouldn't throw history out the window. Especially when studying congressional races 35 Republican seats are vulnerable to switching parties vs. 9 for the Democrats. That is as of today. But those numbers are dynamic and will change quite a bit between now and November 2018.
     
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  3. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    You are the one ignoring history by ignoring the fact dems have been acting like they've been winning elections. It was your own words that stated when a party gets too far to one extreme or the other, and dems haven't learned that they have lost elections since 2010 and REFUSE to become more moderate, or capitulate.

    I would bet by the time the 2018 election gets into full swing, every republican candidate, whether establishment or anti-establishment will remind voters it was democrats MARCHING IN LOCK STEP with each other that barred republicans from making changes they wanted and needed.

    And we have argued statistics previously. I have a background in econometrics (advanced stats) and if you don't properly interpret stats, then you only have garbage as your proof.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  4. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    Believe as you will. How do you interpret Trump's 39% approval rating? How do you interpret the generic congressional polling which gives the democrats an 8 point advantage? How do you interpret the direction of the country with Trump as president with 56% stating we are on the wrong track? Lot's can change in a years time. But as of today, the midterms aren't looking good for the GOP.

    The biggest problem is neither major party listens to America as a whole. Only to their base which causes changes and seats lost for the party in power. The voters vote for the opposite party in the hope the opposite party will listen to them only to find out they don't so they switch their votes once more. You seen this time and time again. 1994, big rush to elect Republicans to Congress, mad at Democrats. 1996 elect Democrats to include Bill Clinton for a second term. 2000, election Bush II, 2006 send the GOP congress packing by electing Democrats. 2008, continue to elect Democrats with Obama. Mad at Obama, send the Democrats in the house away. But in 2012 re-elect Obama, 2014, give the senate to the GOP and in 2016, elect Trump.

    2018 will be determined by how the voters feel about Trump, not necessarily how they feel about the Democrats in congress. Trump is the one with the highest profile and as president shoulders the blame or gets the credit. Time will tell. But I repeat, it doesn't look good today, but we have a year to go for those numbers to change and change they will.
     
  5. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    It's very simple really. The mainstream media has thrown out any attempt to report accurate news from day one of Trump's presidency. It has gotten so bad that they've even brainwashed some of the republicans who fear going against democrats that have been LOSING ELECTIONS SINCE 2010!

    Read George Orwell's book, 1984 and tell me with a straight face that the mainstream media hasn't become what Orwell wrote about. It's flat out disgusting and the American people can see it. But the media isn't going to tell anyone until the NEXT election. The media will be dems own demise.

    SURPRISE! again.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
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  6. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    We'll see what happens. I agree with the fact that CNN and MSNBC might was well be a propaganda arm of the DNC. Fox that of the RNC. This is what cable news has become, one that takes sides. But I tend to take the polls for what they are worth. A tool to gauge where things stand today. Not one year from now. I know Trumpers state the polls are all wrong, but were they? Prediction, Clinton wins popular vote by 3 points, she won by 2. That's pretty close, accurate.

    The key is not to trust any one poll, to average as many as one can together like RCP did. Another key is to learn which lean right and which lean left and make adjustments accordingly. Easily done if one pays attention, finds out what the margin of error is and place the results within that framework. But hardly no one ever does. They're basically ignorant of how the polls work and what they really say.
     
  7. Brn2bfree

    Brn2bfree Active Member

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    //////////
    I agree to all that.
    Obama hurt the Democrat party. He hurt liberalism and their policies. I'm so glad!!!
    Obama lied over and over.... 'You can keep your doctor'... Obama lied to gold star families of the Benghazi attacks... 'it was a video'
    Not only was he a liar but he put our national security at risk for selling uranium to Russians and giving billions to Iran who chants.. 'death to America'.
    He was like a third world dictator and his followers thought of him as a messianic type. As a revolutionary leader of those who were oppressed by rich old white men.
    Obama will be known as the worst president in history. He was a fraud and a chip on his shoulder black guy who set back race relations,.... doubled our national debt. Devastated our military.
    I hope that the Democrats keep going further left. I'm glad that they will continue to support Black lives matter who are a terrorist group who want dead cops.
    The liberal media is in bed with the Democrats... they are co conspirers in the destruction of this country... they think they are above the law and can feed news to the public what they think is best. They carry the water for the liberal ideology which is a lie... pushing ..'Hands up don't shoot'... they are all thick as thieves.
    The Republicans don't have the balls to go after these corrupt politicians.
     
  8. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Obama moved the democrats closer to the truth of what they want, and then Sanders pushed it even further. The only reason Trump is the President is because of battleground states that were very very close.

    Why do you think they went nuts over Trump's immigration policy, which he is now backing down on? Why do you think DACA means so much to the dems, and now Trump?

    They'll win in three years, and then we'll just have to bend over and pucker up because it'll be all over. Trump wasn't the Trojan horse that Jeb Bush would have been, but he doesn't have the backbone to stand against the dems.
     
  9. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then how do you explain the republicans control all three part of the government and they have lost over 1000 seats in state government.
     
  10. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    I agree but do you think they can win with that strategy? I think America is a bit more sober now after the **** show we got from eight years of Obama.
     
  11. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    The Clintons did vastly more to destroy the party than Obama, but it was a slow, 25 year death.

    That pre-Clinton party no longer exists except as a pale shell of its former self; we now have two right wing parties, each incredibly dangerous and corrupt in its own way, but it wasn't Obama that killed the donkey.

    It was the Clintons and the party turning their back on middle and working class America that did it.

    Hillary just delivered the final death blow.
     
  12. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think that they can win because after four to eight years of Trump just simply being Trump the nation as a whole will be yearning for someone as president who generates the IMAGE of calm, staid, sober, wryly humorous, very intelligent, and most of all willing to see all sides of an issue. Or in other words exactly what Obama appeared to be back in 2008; that is, appeared to be to people utterly incapable of looking . . . past . . . image.

    I am not taking a run at Trump, you understand. It's just that he gets on my nerves even though I fully intend to vote for him again in 2020 if he continues along the same lines as he is now; it's just that he's exhausting to listen to and watch as a president. By 2020 people will have convinced themselves that Obama really wasn't all that bad and that besides which this time around they KNOW how to spot a phony moderate.

    Mind you these will be the SAME voters who BELIEVED all of the fake vetting done on Obama by the Leftist-Allied Mainstream Media by ABC, CBS, NBC/MSNBC, The Washington Post, The New York Times, and et. al, ideologically suborned media outlets and so they WON'T do any vetting of that candidate on their own. So forth and so on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  13. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! I worry more about democrats realizing they can't win on their platform so they will simply lie during election campaigns. They obviously aren't going to change their platforms no matter how many elections they lose and become more moderate. But as long as they keep trying to character assassinate their opponents instead of arguing the issues, then the people stand a chance of making the improvements needed by the people, by not voting dem.

    It seems the leftists have the upper hand of the dem party and so they will continue as they have.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  14. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    And continue to lose, from your lips to God's ear.
     
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  15. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Special thanks go to the lying liberal media as well. :D

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    sadly many people thought Trump did not stand a chance, thus did not bother to vote, a mistake they hopefully learn from and never forget
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a prescient point. I matters not who sits in the WH. The Establishment runs the show. It is important to understand that the big E is not just the political elite but includes the international financiers and the deep state.

    Things like illegal immigration are of little interest to the Establishment. The things the Establishment is most interested (Control of the media, creating fear among the masses to keep the money flowing into defense contractors and banks - via money borrowed, increasing the power of Gov't and police towards a quazi totalitarian Big Brother police state, maintaining the favorable tax and regulation structure combined with not going after anti competitive practices/anti trust and price fixing by the Oligopolies towards a system of indentured servitude, creating enemies to increase fear of an external threat) these are all things that Trump is doing.

    The illusion of being anti-establishment and creating division among the sheep suites the Establishment very well.
     
  18. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the establishment runs the show, primarily from INSIDE the government as employed bureaucrats leaking false info to the media while sympathizing with dems for bigger government revenues.

    There is no "illusion" of being anti-establishment. There are only people who don't understand how our system of government works or doesn't work. FOUR republicans chose not to support fixing or repealing Obamacare but the MEDIA makes people think they are the reason it wasn't accomplished.

    The FACT IS, democrats have been marching in lock-step with each other to oppose improvements or changes they messed up in the first place, doing so even after losing elections SINCE 2010.

    Steve
     
  19. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they learn a thing. It's the same story SINCE 2010.

    Steve


    1929_Time_mag.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  20. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm sure somewhere is a study that would prove how undereducated the vast majority of immigrants are. Who better to manipulate?

    They work for cheap, too! hahaha Once there are enough, we can do away with the middle class, as they pay for much of the social benefits. We will incorporate more help from the government into society, just as they continue doing. This is well thought out and not as simple as most folks think. I am in awe of the intelligence which developed these plans which many think are complicated, but which are super simple.

    That is a sign of great intellectual ability. They have my respect.......not for the harm they cause, but for the simplicity and genius of the plan.
     
  21. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Clintons killed the democratic party.

    When a bunch of rich Americans tell a black guy he can be president, any black guy with a brain should see that play for what it is.

    But Obama was the nail in the coffin, because they read his win as trends were in their favor, not realizing he was picked because he was the most anti-establishment option.

    Had the republicans ran Paul instead of Romney, Obama gets destroyed, after proving he was on the globalist side after the 1st term.

    People are done with the establishment.
     
  22. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Expanding on this.........it isn't that I think everyone is getting together and making plans. I think they are just smart enough and all on the same page of trying to out do each other in wealth and power, almost as a game. It's got to be boring when you have it all. What else is there? Seeing who can control the most and control their rival.

    Simply using the issues many find fearful is a means to an end. It isn't that they are telling anyone to do this, but they are opportunists extraordinaire. That's how they got so wealthy. Timing and awareness combined with education and intelligence help them immensely.

    It's not some whacko conspiracy theory. It's giving a little push to the natural progression of things after seeds sprout and utilizing them to further certain ideals and goals conducive to making fanatical believers and activists out of normal issues of everyday living in a free country. It's easier here because we are free.

    think about it. Laws get passed that have destroyed what we knew and built a society that is conducive to their goals and actions. They've made it legal to do formerly illegal things through societal changes in rights.

    Rights don't actually change. They've always been the same for all. Its just that some folks were told they were oppressed and believed it. Its so much easier to blame society than ourselves. Yes, there are things that needed changed. AfAms have been treated poorly, and that has changed too slowly.

    Driving a wedge into our country with that issue only helps those in charge. They can easily pass laws which reduce liberty in exchange for less fear and more safety.

    All that does is tighten their grip. It's going to take some reality to stop all this. We, in the USA, don't believe in reality. We tend to believe in fantasy of gaming, movies, sports, and gambling. It used to be tht most used up those fantasies in religious ceremonies and celebrations. They afforded the opportunities to release and believe in something without changing the fabric of society. Withuot religion, we turn life into whatever fantasy there is to believe in. And, there are plenty.

    We are in trouble. I hope you all realize this. It doesn't matter if you think I'm a nut or not. Think about this from a stance of 50,000 feet from the issues. It helps clear your mind.
     
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  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our healthcare system was broken before ACA and it will be broken after. All other first world nations have universal healthcare. These systems are bloated and inefficient Gov't bureaucracies. Yet, somehow our system is more expensive and we offer care that is middle of the pack and have no universal healthcare.

    How the frick does that work ? How it works is that we have both the inefficient bureaucracy and private for profit. The Healthcare Oligopoly-Bureaucracy Fusion Monster is robbing us blind. It is licensed extortion x 2. Part of what is driving our system towards indentured servitude.

    For years voices have talked about drug price fixing - that we pay many times more for the same drug from the same manufacturer.

    Has anything ever been done about it (red or blue) ... NOT.

    The Establishment international financiers own the healthcare oligopolies. That is why nothing changes.

    There has been no serious effort by either Red or Blue Establishment to make real change to the structure to the facets of our healthcare system that are robbing us blind.
     
  24. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree with the OP in a certain respect. The Obama candidacy and Administration revealed that we are susceptible to a glad-handing socialist face candidate with no substance who rides to power on hollow, emotion-laden appeals... like all politicians do admittedly to a degree, even Trump, but not to the degree Obama did. There is no equivalence. Such candidates can obtain power even despite being "slid in" late in the game. They don't have to really slog it out through a crowded field for years or "pay their dues" to get the votes, just be and sound pretty and not be flagrantly crooked. Once elected, their massive MSM power kicks in and begins carrying water, hiding and deflecting flaws.

    The lesson is that if the packaging is pretty enough, and "diverse" enough, without insurmountable "insider" baggage, that they can win. It is the -last- hope of the Democrats, the machine that led to Obama proved this, and it could very easily repeat. So IMO, whereas Obama did some damage, what his candidacy and Administration revealed was a net gain for Democrats for the future (unless and until the uranium scandal comes home to roost, then the dynamic changes). They are killing themselves with -other- poison.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  25. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Before ACA, there was HMO's. Before HMO's there was Blue Cross/Blue Shield. That was good shtuff.
     
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