obama's presidency destroyed the democratic party

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by doombug, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Using this site as a gauge isn't practical.

    I stomp turf all over this nation.

    I promise, there is no one on their side. Liberal or conservative.

    If they are dumb enough to think their pseudo online support counts as actual support, that just means they're dumber than we all thought, and getting our nation back is something that could have been done easily years ago.
    There was just always a quality of life that kept them safe, to which when removed with the middle class, became very dangerous, as their way is of tricks and not genuineness.

    Know this: had they been straightforward about globalism since inception, they have it by now.

    Their dedication to laziness is what destroyed them.

    Trust me, killing your competition instead of negotiating has been why every ruler has eventually fallen.

    Too much power plays tricks within one's own mind.

    Hitler lost because they killed the other half of the nationalists before they even started. They could have kept him sain.
    The globalists lost because they pushed out all counter ideas 40 years ago, and without a challenge, now we engage with their side and it's like conversing with chimps, who haven't had to think for themselves in decades.

    Removing your competition is a disaster - even for the victor.
     
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  2. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff!
     
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  3. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Hold that thought, please! :)
     
  4. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Easy, they refuse to listen or recognize.
     
  5. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Conquering him and blaming on others is better.

    Hitler.........lost also for many reasons. One of which was the Germans were holding to a 40 hour week and 8 hour day. That's partly why they needed captive slaves to do the work. Arrogance.....I guess. Many reasons........
     
  6. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Perfect :)
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Someone has to pick do the uneducated jobs but that is another issue. The Establishment is not that concerned either way. What the Establishment is concerned about is "education".

    12 years of school and we manage not to teach the basic principles on which this nation was founded.

    1) individual rights and freedoms "above" the legitimate authority of Gov't (Give me liberty or give me death)

    If one does now know what the legitimate authority of Gov't is ..how then is a citizen to know when the Gov'ts actions are illegitimate ?
    Every one says "limited Gov't is good" but, how many can answer "What is the power of Gov't limited to ?"

    2) "consent of the Governed" what does this even mean and how does it relate to the legitimate authority of Gov't ?

    If individual liberty ( life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) is "Above" the legitimate authority of Gov't, then simple majority mandate is not legitimate justification to make law that messes with individual liberty. If this was the case then there would be no point in putting essential liberty "ABOVE" the legitimate authority of Gov't. Every Gov't has a simple majority mandate. This bastardization of "consent of the governed" was termed "Tyranny of the Majority" in both Republicanism and Classical Liberalism.

    3) 12 years of school and we manage not to teach the very basics of Philosophy (Logic, logical fallacy, what constitutes a valid argument and so on)

    With out these basic tools, how is an individual supposed to wade through the daily cacophony of fallacy and bad argument raining down from politicians and the MSM on a daily basis ?

    Creation and dissemination of propaganda by the "State" was made legal in 2013 while at the same time media that conflicts with the State false narrative is being censored. Those who would out Gov't crimes are punished and those who commit those crimes do not.

    This is nuts .... One of the main "canaries in the totalitarian/ Authoritarian coal mine" is when the powers at be go after the media and start creating state propaganda.

    But hey ... don't worry. It won't happen here. Our Gov't will never go bad. Power does not corrupt and more power does not corrupt more. Just have faith. History will not repeat itself here in the USA ...land of the free - home of the brave.

    Don't worry that "Give me liberty or give me death" is not "It is your patriotic duty to give up essential liberty" a risk of harm that is 400 times less than the risk of harm from walking. You heard me correctly.

    The sheep are on their knees begging to give up essential liberty ... of only for more security from the external threat.

    Ben Franklin "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security"

    The founders knew well the age old tactic of using fear of an external threat to take away liberty on the promise of security from that threat.

    Stalin wrote a chapter using fear of an external threat "Security for the Motherland"
    Hitler did the same "Fatherland Security"
    Bush, lacking the creative ability to come up with a new name "Homeland Security" He then made it our "Patriotic Duty" to give up essential liberty. "Patriot Act"

    Obama then came along and changed the name to the equally Orwellian doublespeak "Freedom Act".

    It is like the Establishment is using Orwell as a textbook. One thing is for sure ... Big Brother has arrived.
     
  8. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right. But who knows if any of those bad decisions are ever made had the practical nationalists not been slaughtered in the night. lol
     
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  9. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    We are in agreement on most points, HOWEVER . . . you don't seem to get the difference between a few republicans going with their own constituents, or suffer the consequences . . .

    AND

    Democrats that are marching in lock-step with each other to try and keep their party in POWER.

    In either case, dems and repubs will have to answer to their constituents and SINCE 2010 dems are losing POWER! It's like trying to turn a battleship around.

    In the meantime, Trump has performed some exec orders that may or may not help reduce healthcare insurance prices. He will have to answer to it in the upcoming elections himself. It really isn't any loss to republicans. Trump was just the only one that could beat Clinton and keep us out more of the same from Obama.

    Steve
     
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  10. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Great post.

    There are people on their side smart enough to know you can only bury truth, you can beat it.

    It's been dug up.

    The infrastructure won't realize until it's too late. They're the programmed.

    The people at the top aren't loyal to them.

    People with money are smart enough to see the talent has shifted.

    I promise. We have won.

    They just have to make sure they get their story right for 70 years of history.

    They aren't going to tell the soldiers. The soldiers go down with the ship.

    That's why the socks still seem like globalists are in full control dictating all of this.
    If they knew what was coming, these fools wouldn't be posting anymore.

    They'd be hitting up an attorney.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I get that there is disagreement in the GOP in relation to healthcare and the ACA. I get that the Dems are on the same page.

    What I also get is that it does not matter. Regardless of whether or not the GOP manages to get together to make some changes or whether the Dems get power back ... nothing substantive is going to change.

    The whole "competition" false narrative is just that. Competition among the Insurance Oligopoly ? this is a laugh. Price fixing and collusion will see that this does not happen. Further any money in profit to the insurance industry (or any other private companies profiting off of private for profit healthcare) increases the cost over the already outrageous cost of the bureaucracy.

    The whole system is broken. There is no competition among medical practitioners... the medical colleges see to it that the number of doctors is limited to keep demand and wages high. There is no measures on table to increase competition (in any realistic way), or reduce price fixing, collusion and anti competitive practices.

    We have a chance to create a system that is better than the ugly, bloated, inefficient systems of other first world nations (and we have more clout due to the size of our system) but, we will not create a better system.

    Our system is "Pay to Play" such that when Politicians "Play" they get "Paid" in one form or another. Do you think it is for nothing that Hillary gets paid 250K a pop for 15 minute speeches at wall street and business luncheons ? Do you think it is for her brilliant advice and scintillating company ?

    Hillary played and now she is getting paid. This is how our system works. Make it to congress and insider trading becomes legal or all intensive purposes. You (or better yet your buddy) can sit on a committee giving contract to ABC company and invest in that company prior to the news hitting the street. This is a license to print money "I want in on that Game"

    Sure from time to time there is a lone voice calling out this practice. Everyone than points and says "LOOK LOOK ... we have freedom of speech in this country". That lone voice is then quickly drowned out by the cacophony on the take. This is not some cabal or star chamber .. it is the natural outcropping of self interest and greed.

    Would you be the one to shoot the goose laying the golden eggs ? I wouldn't. I am not going to be the one running against a herd of stampeding bulls.

    Same thing for price fixing by drug companies and collusion among insurance companies. For decades people have been calling out this obvious fact. Way too many are getting paid to play for anything to change.

    Every time a tax law or regulation is being made the Oligopoly is sitting at the table - and perhaps they have a right to be there. The problem is that he person who is supposed to be representing our interest is either in the pocket of or under the influence of the Oligopoly.

    The Oligopoly does not win every table but, over time, table after table they win enough so that the rules of the game get skewed in favor of the Oligopoly

    Should all the GOP jump on the Trump train nothing would change. Trump is an elitist and he is working in the interest of the Establishment - international financiers and deep state.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Damn I hope you are right. I think the only way to effect change is not through revolution but to get the international financiers on board.
    There are Global issues that need to be dealt with and this continued focus on moving money from the middle class to the elite (and all its various trappings including trying to maintain international hegemony which is part of the reason for these really dumb wars and creation of paper and real enemies) is not helping.
     
  13. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The left right dynamic is only verbally in play because of the baby boomers living in their own bubble.

    The battle is nationalists vs globalists, and all the people who work for the globalists, via lack of competition, have turned into talentless hacks that get shredded anywhere they appear.

    They have figured out by now it isn't Trump that's being followed.

    It's the collective conscious. It has awoke.

    Trump could be tarred and feathered by the same people who put him in with a wrong burp.

    Only the left for some reason can't see the n vs g game at stake, because I think the echo chamber sources refusing to acknowledge it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Funny, Obama won in 2012, 2 years after the 2010 you give, more voters voted dem in 2016, course trump won via affirmative action for the smaller states anyways...

    Trump will help get out the votes for dems
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  15. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The global pipe dream has proven faulty.

    They make WAY more money going with the wind.

    Way more.
     
  16. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    You evidently don't know anything about business and economics. Even in the REAL WORLD the government tried to fix gasoline prices back in the 1970s. The supply dried up and when the government released the price fixing then gasoline prices jumped higher than expected. It's very basic and called supply and demand. I'm more of a Post Keynesian economist that believes more in the demand side because supply will ALWAYS provide goods and services to the market, if the price is right. That's the world we live in.

    The market will provide the services at reasonable prices, but the government has to get out of the way. Let the states provide healthcare governance, customized to their needs if they want it. It may happen sooner than you think if Obamacare collapses soon.

    But you still don't have a solution to whom you will vote for to give you what you want. It's either dems or republicans. Stop trying to through a wrench in republicans doing their job. The media is doing the same thing just to get dems back the power they want.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  17. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say anything about 2012. I said dems have been losing elections since 2010 and if you look carefully, dems are at a net loss since 2010, by hundreds ACROSS ALL SEATS OF POWER, local, state, and federal levels. That doesn't have anything to do with Trump but everything to with what dems are doing wrong.

    But I will enjoy you staying ignorant of that fact as you keep losing elections and ignoring history.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  18. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The tea party inspiration lead to a lot of anti-establishment republicans in the rank and file that are attractive to independents.

    It is quite obvious that the dems control EVERY brain they allow to play ball.

    There will be so many people voting Trump the next time around, who were yelling at us 6 months ago. Haha

    Once Vegas is announced, millions will immediately start to separate themselves from the left. "Liberal" is going to be a dirty word for a couple of decades. People who are paid for popularity have no choice but to start switching, and fast.

    The fall of the globalist infrastructure will pave the way for genuine legislation.

    This proof of results will bring people flooding over to get their voices heard.

    Trump will get 80% of the vote on the next one.

    Leftists are lucky only their FDR was allowed 4 terms.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not things slot well into "nationalists vs globalists" . When you label things like this the labels lose meaning.

    The raging masses have awoke to some degree but they do not know where to point their arrows. We saw the anti Establishment backlash on both sides of the fence. Bernie on the left and the Donald on the right.

    As it turns out Trump has turned out to be anything but anti establishment. He is an establishment wonk .. full boar.
     
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is this nonsense ? Quote one thing I said that you disagree with. Anyone can sit in the peanut gallery and name call .. If you are going throw stones then back up what you say.

    Then you follow your comment with this meaningless rambling which does not address anything that I said in relation to price fixing and anti competitive practices.

    This rubbish argument was addressed in my previous post. If the market was free an fair I might agree with you but, it is not. Flawed assumptions lead to flawed conclusions.

    How do you know whether or not I have a solution Mr. Strawman. It is you that is living in the fantasy land where Red has somehow improved the healthcare mess when in Power.

    Your first problem is that you have yet to figure out that Red and Blue both work for the same boss. You speak in platitudes and false narrative as if this nonsense has worked in the past.

    You throw out insults "you do not know anything about economics" when you do not even have basic math skills to do economics such as understanding what "mass balance" is.

    Name one thing that you would change that would decrease the cost of healthcare ? I gave a number of "specific examples". Saying "get the gov't out of the way is a statement of nothing ... gov't out of the way in relation to what ? and how would this decrease costs ?
     
  21. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What if I told you 80% of Americans were working, via Trump or Sanders, to bring this?
    That both sides are the same people.

    We were going to win either way, and they damn well know it.

    It's over. I promise.

    We love you. Nothing bad will happen. :)
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are speaking in riddles "to bring this" .... to bring what ?
     
  23. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Genuine representation.

    Something none of us have had in our lives.

    Now is the time for logical arguments.

    Let them fly.

    Just don't use emotional appeals please. It makes us vomit.
     
  24. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Your own rambling shows you don't know anything about business or economics. When you start trying to tell people how to fix healthcare problems, prices, whatever, or they can't be fixed, try at least to have a basic knowledge of what you're talking about.

    Anyone using the nick "giftedone" should know this already. LOL

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again. Sitting in the peanut gallery throwing out insults is not an argument for much.

    I made a number of specific points - none of which you seem to be able to manage a response - other than insults.
     

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