On the issue of Proselytizing...

A friend of mine texted me yesterday she went to see the movie, The Shack, not realizing it was a religious themed movie. I laughed, knowing all too well this is the latest trend in Hollywood in order to tap into the Christian market. I predict it's a phase that will run dry in a couple of more years, but who knows.

However, the part of this which motivates me to post on here was the review of this same movie by Peter Sobczynski @rogerebert.com. There is something distinctively "preachy" about a lot of these Christian movies that no amount of production value or star talent can cover up. They come off as two dimensional propaganda films.

Now I know many of these movies are based on popular Christian book sales, so there obviously is an audience out there, but why this bizarre sales pitch if you are preaching to the choir?

Does anyone else see this?

 

I don't understand what you are sayings is a "bizarre sales pitch"? Perhaps if you clarified.

 

What kind of mind would take the name Lucifer? Why not Charles Manson, or Hitler, Stalin? You know, to bring it down to earth.

I am surprised more Hollywood films do not tap into the Christian market. Quite a few of them in the South. Plus, you can take the kids to see these films and not have to worry about young minds being conditioned by the vulgarity of American Sodom and Gomorrah culture. Human nature is naturally base, has a very dark side, as illustrated by our history, and we do not need vulgar conditioning to encourage it.

 

There is a robust market for faith based movies that are distributed on DVD. People are increasingly shunning movie theaters because of the cost and because of the carrying on that occurs at them. It is not uncommon for churches to show them, especially to youth groups. I have paid the licensing fees for the church someone who works for me attends so that they could show some of them as part of their youth programs when they have lock-ins and such. Isn't very expensive generally as they have a very small number of youth. It is a mostly elderly congregation and they are just struggling financially so I periodically do things for them. IIRC, the last one was only something like $38 to show.

 

These type of Christian films have a fairly obvious pitch; give your life to Jesus and all your problems will be whisked away, or some variation thereof. It's a sales pitch, a denouement that leaves the average person feeling cheated.

 

Lookup the origin of the name. It's not based on superstitious mumbo jumbo, or the far flung writings of Dante.

Okay

 

I go to some of these since I have religious friends, some aren't bad and some are just BAD in a BAD way, especially older movies from the 70's. But I usually have a good laugh at how badly acted these are then can talk over the themes and such and usually over yummy things so what is the harm? I find street preachers and such far more annoying or those people in the bus who trap you for a half hour or help me on Greyhound for a longer time not able to escape.

 

Thank you for your post.

You underscore my main point; proselytizing is such a blatantly weak attempt, whether as done as a form of art as in a film, or street preaching, that it makes you wonder who is suppose to benefit from it?

Take for example the street preacher on a corner with a bullhorn. Who the hell is he going to save, but none other than someone just as crazy as himself. It makes no sense. So why would anyone think taking that same approach and pouring more money into it in the form of a film would be treated any differently than the street preacher?

Proselytizing is selling, except what you are selling is faith.

Evangelical Christianity, be it Baptist, Jehovah Witnesses, or any other new fangled Christian offshoot, is still in its infancy in comparison to Catholicism when it comes to this issue of dealing honestly with existentialism. It's not to say that Catholicism is better, but that simply the whole concept of evangelizing is not central to its modern interpretation of faith. Then again, Catholicism has had a very bloody history when it came to applying that precept of Christianity.

 

Perhaps if you consider "the average person" as an atheist. I have seen some that had people of differing faiths struggling or helping someone struggle, but if these things are not your cup of tea, don't watch them. It is that simple. I don't watch horror films, Disney type kids movies, or westerns any more because I get no value from them. I don't go out of my way to attack them. I don't care if they get made or not. I don't really watch faith-based movies much either--maybe once or twice a year--but that is because they tend to be rather predictable in their plots.

 

"""""Human nature is naturally base, has a very dark side, """"""


Too bad it was created that way...............isn't it ?

...and the only way to keep "young minds" from being conditioned to anything but what you want them to know is to lock them up....not a good idea.....


There's "quite a few of " what in the South?

 

I could be wrong....
but I see real potential in Armageddon or anti-Armageddon
themed semi - reality science fiction films set in Israel playing a role in
boosting the USA and world economy.

The idea of a "King David" being raised up for the Jewish people.....
combined with the ancient theory that King David was the reincarnation of the Patriarch Adam.....
has a lot of potential to
shift the world toward less conflict......
and much greater productivity.

I believe that Hollywood is just getting starting on something that can be HUGE!

 

That right there is my point.

There is a palpable difference between a Christian movie and a Spiritual movie.

Here's a list I put together of significant spiritual films that do far more to address that struggling you refer to than conventional Christian films.

The Life of Pi
The Fountain
What Dreams May Come
Life is Beautiful
Koyaanisqatsi
Whale Rider
Cloud Atlas
Cast Away
Tuesdays with Morrie
The Notebook
2001 A Space Odyssey
Forrest Gump
The Matrix

There are many many more, and certainly some of the ones that I picked maybe debatable by your standards. The point being is these movies don't even deal with dogma, or the virtues of any one specific religion, yet they strike to the heart of some universal truths, of which Christian films clearly never reach such depth. It is as if they are there only to reinforce dogma.

Now you're right, I too do not care whether they get made or not.

I was hoping to hear from someone who does consider some of these Christian films to be spiritual for them.

 

Perhaps I over-simplified. The Bible stuff is not what I consider so predictable. It is the storylines whether the Bible stuff were there or not. The plots have all the depth of a Saved By The Bell episode.

 

You might get a laugh out of the
explanation for the fall of Lucifer given to near death experiencer
Dr. Richard Eby............
it is also potentially useful in that it refutes Young Earth Creationism......

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...eby-verifies-old-earth-and-gap-theory.368149/

 

Alright...so, are there any Christian movies that are not that way? Or do you think it's an inherent part of creating this type of movie with this message?

 

Of course there are non-Christian movies like that, for instance, Saved By The Bell's wedding movie and most anything on Hallmark Channel

 

most of the time like subjects in movies and tv shows and the like, its what they want the general public to think or believe about a subject like Christianity, or Islam so on and so forth. for example the true expert on what a Christian should be, or ought to be, is one who is not a Christian. if you think I'm incorrect on that all you have to do is read the posting in this section of the sight, they are the ones telling especially Christians what they ought to be. media does the same, they don't have a clue on something like Christianity, but they will feed you their take on it.

socially and politically, in this country anyway, the pendulum swings from one side to the other and back, and there is always those who seek to capitalize on it.

 

bump

 

I'm not certain if I'm following you here.

My point in it's most basic form is if these Christian movies are meant to sell Christianity to a non-christian audience, they are missing the mark. If they're trying to be inspirational thought-provoking narratives from a Christian perspective, they don't seem to fare well into the medium of film.

 

It wasn't created that way. We had free will and chose to sin. God created us perfect.

Or teaching them the right path. It's not a guarantee but it's better than letting your five year old flip through your stack of playboy magazines.

Movies I think.

 

I like the movie "courageous."

 

It sounds as if you're assuming a single purpose when there is obviously more than one.

And I really never understood why people are so offended at proselytizing. When someone comes along door knocking for politics, they want a political change. When someone comes door knocking for the ____ scouts, they want your money. When someone comes along door knocking for the Jehovahs Witnesses, Latter Day Saints etc., they're hope is to dave your soul from eternal damnation.

Even without believing in it (I certainly never put stock in the beliefs of Jehovahs Witnesses, Latter Day Saints, etc.), you can [and should] appreciate the intent.

 

IF "god" had made us perfect we wouldn't have sinned...LOL!

C'mon, I know "faith" means you have to stretch on logic but you just blew it completely....

 

I appreciate what you are saying, but I just don't see it that way.

The assumption of "saving my soul" is pretty negative and judgmental IMO. Sort of the equivalent of me showing up at your door under the assumption you're a tax cheat.

Even if I was to assume they were looking for an enlightened conversation on the topic of "god", most of them generally have a routine script they go by, therefore too much deviation is not possible. But to be honest, I really haven't had JW or LDS knock on my door in years, well over a decade.

 

if you consider for a moment what would be the right thing to do if they were right, then what they're doing is the kindest thing they could. And I don't know every religion's theology, but from what I know of mainline Christianity (Protestantism and Catholocism), whether or not someone is damned requires no presumption on their own goodness. Jesus said that a man who looks in lust at a woman who is not his wife commits adultery - which covers every guy, right? So the assumption made really isn't negative.

The only religious door-knockers I've ever had were JW, when I was young - my mom was polite to them, my dad wasn't terse. But quite frankly, I loved the LDS door-knockers. I was at a friend's house for game night when two young guys came over, and she told them, "sorry, we're about to play a game - but you're welcome to join us", and they did. Can't remember the name of the game, but the idea of it was that each player is a character in a haunted house, and one becomes possessed and tries to kill the others while they try to get out alive. One of the LDS guys was the demon, and when in the game he brought us all and the house down into hell he stood up and said like a demon, "you're souls are mine!" The guys were pretty chill, and quite funny.