Operation Flailing Nation

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Striped Horse, Apr 23, 2018.

  1. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We never lost the Vietnam war. I'm not sure why you keep repeating that hilarious nonsense. The mission was to stop the spread of communism around the world with our narrow target being Vietnam.

    We completed the mission and left the country.

    I bet you also think we lost the war in Iraq? I'd love to list those statistics for you as well.
     
  2. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    As long as you're going to simply deny the reality that is as plain as the name of a capital city, the fact that South Vietnam no longer exists as an Independent nation and the fact that most of our Montagnard and other allies are now either dead or are over here, i'm not even going to try and argue with you. I'll see at the next Confederate Victory Day Parade, we can talk over this bridge in Brooklyn I have, going at a bargain price.

    You can also list all the stats you want. I take it you are familiar with how guerrilla wars operate (and have since Napoleonic times), the concept of asymmetric warfare and the phrase "we won all the battles and lost the war", If not, please read up.
     
  3. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If the mission was accomplished in Vietnam, and we stopped the spread of communism (it was much more than just Vietnam...), then how in your mind is that a loss?

    And please don't humor me on reading up about war. You've never been.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  4. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You will not see me at a confederate victory day parade. I am from Massachusetts. If you believe the south won, that's your own issue.
     
  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    You're moving the goalposts, I was told the war in VIETNAM was to save" VIETNAM. I was given all these stories about how I and my friends were supposed to fight and die to rescue the noble VIETNAMESE freedom fighters and to save the VIETNAMESE people from the horrors of the regime that now hangs tourist posters in my building's travel agency every month

    The Fall of Vietnam was communism's greatest triumph in Asia, causing the Fall of Cambodia and the the second Greatest genocide in the 20th century. The spread of communism was only stopped years later in Afghanistan .
     
  6. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you were told it was to "save Vietnam" than that's your problem. The MISSION was to stop the spread of communism which was accomplished. If you were told some sob story I don't care. That's your own ignorance.
     
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  7. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    I thought it would be interesting to carry on the discussion, Mandelus. You and I both have an interest in WWII history.

    I wanted to shift emphasis a bit and focus now on post the war and the many Nazis who fled all over the world via the Ratlines. When I checked earlier this year, the Interagency Working Group (now there's a name) of the US National Archives published a "Detailed Report (RG 263) of Heinrich Mueller (I just checked and this report is still their current one HERE), which purports to all the reports from the Directorate of Operations of the CIA. That report concludes, although not definitively they say, that Mueller "most likely died in Berlin in 1945". That page was reviewed for accuracy on 15 August 2015.

    Reuters ran a story back in 2013 that also concluded that SS Gestapo Chief Heinrich Mueller died in Berlin in 1945 and was buried in a Jewish cemetery, according to German historian, Prof Johannes Tuschel. Quite apart from the cruelty of the alleged burial ground, Tuschel claims he has proof of this - although he didn't rush to present his documentary proof, that I can see anyway? ( story HERE).

    Cynical me wonders why the US government and a German historian keep rushing to this judgement?

    Because below is a video secretly shot in Asuncion, Paraguay, in 1978, by a British TV documentary crew for Grenada TV who were making a documentary on Mengele.



    He didn't look very dead to me and he wasn't in Berlin either, although his remains might have been transported back there after his death...

    What are your thoughts?

    Heinrich-Mueller.jpg
     
  8. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  9. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Glad you asked, Aperchat.

    My thoughts are that back in the 1970's, Britain's Grenada TV journalists were well regarded as being very professional and very capable. They conducted meaningful research and knew of what they spoke.

    I also note that the American journalist, Paul Manning, a contemporary and colleague of the great Ed Murrow, was a class act journalist too. In his book Martin Bormann: Nazi in Exile, published in 1981, Manning reported that he also met personally with Heinrich Mueller to negotiate and facilitate a meeting with Bormann, for his book.

    And yet, according to US and German official and endless media stories, Bormann also died in Berlin in 1945.

    But:



    What do you think?
     
  10. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    It's been reported they did DNA tests on the body found in Berlin and they said it is Bormann, has that been independently verified?
     
  11. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know. But care has to be taken on all these old Nazis affairs. They remain incredibly sensitive and I doubt the truth will ever be fully told.

    As Churchill said, the truth has to be attended by a bodyguard of lies.

    What the media (and the German government) are less likely to mention though, is that the skeleton had red earth embedded in it that was not German in origin, but derived from Latin America. The body was disinterred from its initial resting place in Latin America and then reinterred back in Germany.

    Crafty, eh.

    I would recommend the book by Hugh Thomas titled "SS-1: The Unlikely Death of Heinrich Himmler", not only because THomas presents evidence that quite powerfully contests the official story that Himmler was captured by the British as he tried to escape in 1945, and then committed suicide and his body buried in an unmarked grave to stop it becoming a place of devotion by unrepentant nazis.

    Thomas is a first class forensic scientist (later being hired by British TV documentary makers for his expertise) and his interest in "affairs Nazi" were kindled in his earlier days when was assigned to become the prison doctor for Rudolf Hess at Spandau Prison. During his time in that role he regularly assessed Hess as his physician (he was a qualified medical doctor) and at some point decided to compare Hess's then body with his old German military records. He observed that there were many irregularities and scars missing that couldn't possible have disappeared (this from memory, I read the book some 30 years ago). After a prolonged investigation he concluded that the man in Spandau prison was not the real Rudolf Hess.

    He later wrote a book about it, a very good one too.

    I can add to this whole story if you wish, as I know what actually happened to the real Hess, following contact with a now deceased Brit who was with MI5 who's father worked for Churchill during the war and undertook "wet work" and other unseemly activities of which Churchill was most fond. He owned a copy of the very, very rare "Red Book" - the membership roster of Britain's Nazi favouring Right Club (that has thousands of the very highest British VIP's as members), and I negotiated with him for a copy [ unsuccessfully, I'm sorry to say. He asked why I wanted it and I honestly told him I wanted to publish it. He was not interested in that outcome; he was really quite right wing himself and a member of the "top table" of the Rosicrucians to boot. Something that is not entirely unusual in those lofty circles, I might add.... :) ].

    But you may care to read a book by Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince and Stephen Prior titled Double Standards: The Rudolf Hess Cover-Up. They also had access to the same person I was in contact with for the research phase of their book.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
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  12. Striped Horse

    Striped Horse Well-Known Member

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    I said above that these very old and highly secret matters are still very sensitive and so they are.

    But that doesn't mean that the fabricated stories are not, slowly, crumbling.

    For years, Bormann lived quite openly in the best hotel in Buenos Aires. The Argentinian President Juan Peron weekly sent his ADC, Jorge Silva Colotto to visit him to give him an agreed stipend of folding money.

    Shortly before his death, Colotto consented to give a filmed interview about his knowledge of Bormann's survival, but with the stipulation that it wasn't made public until after his death.

     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018

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