Opposing view points on sexuality.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Polydectes, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I frankly have grown very weary of the bickering that goes on between those that support lgbt rights and those that don't. I saw in another thread that somebody wants an open and honest discussion about homosexual relationships and same sex marriage.

    We aren't likely going to change each other's minds so I am not really interested in the arguments that prove this way or that. I am more interested in discussing our beliefs.

    So tell me what you believe, but be warned, I can't keep the trolls out. If you want to ask questions of a gay person. I am and I will answer as honestly as I can so long is the question is appropriate (no personal stuff.)

    But keep in mind everybody, I tend to be more conservative and less of a party line carrier.
     
  2. AKRunner88

    AKRunner88 New Member

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    I believe it is none of my business.
     
  3. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I support gay rights. Seems like it will take a lot of new laws and regulations to oppose them. I think the new era of freedom is going to stress out a lot of the older gay community, they have to think about the possibility of marriage now.

    I am straight but have had plenty of contact with homosexuals. Its just not the big deal the phobes think it is.

    peace
     
    Polydectes and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    There are some issues I think need to be resolved. But many are minor

    - - - Updated - - -

    I respect that, but the spirit of thisthread is to discuss mostly how you feel about it.

    But I understand wanting to keep those feelings to yourself. So I respect your wishes not to discuss it.
     
  5. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    I oppose mindless bigotry in any form it takes-but more especially when it appears cloaked in religious mumbo-jumbo from those who claim to be caring and inclusive Christians. This tends to be predominantly an issue with the conservative element who, when asked why they have a problem with GLBT, are frequently stumped for anything much deeper than 'it's icky' for an answer. Then, of course, 'tradition' is brought up as if having a tradition of heterosexual relationships being the accepted 'norm' is a good enough reason to condemn homosexuality.

    One thing I do have a bit of an issue with is the Gay Pride march thing, because I really don't see the point. I'm not 'proud' to be a heterosexual; I just am one and don't feel a pressing need to advertise the fact. A good friend is a lesbian and she seems to be at pains to let everyone know she is at every available opportunity. I wonder why that is?
     
  6. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    The pride parade was a tradition that started in 1969. It started as a riot after a raid on a gay bar in New York. I guess people decided they would keep doing it.
     
  7. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Romans 1:26-27 New International Version (NIV)

    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10

    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
     
  8. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I suppose quoting the Bible is really meaningful for some. It is not part of an honest and open discussion.

    I do not support gay rights but I do support the U.S. Constitution, including the amendment about equal rights under the law.

    I agree with AKRunner88.

    It's a bit off-topic but I consider Dan Savage a total piece of crap.
     
  9. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

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    When did you choose to be gay? Hint: I'm being sarcastic. I know you didn't choose, it's just who you are. Nor is it any of my or anyone else's business.
     
  10. Skinny.

    Skinny. Banned

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    I don't hold opinions on other peoples' sexuality. It's called being a well rounded individual and not getting off on the social domination involved with forcing your inane, repressive heteronormative beliefs onto consenting adults.

    You taking notes, Peabody?
     
  11. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    How do you view what you call gay rights? I mean as opposed to other rights? Why are you against them?

    As do I but if we discuss things in an open honest way perhaps we can learn from each other.

    I only have my view point, I am willing to place it on a shelf for the sake of discussion. And if others do so as well, the people can bicker about bible quotes, and chick fil a and so forth. And we can continue on with an interesting discussion.

    I haveno idea who that is.
     
  12. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I was visiting with a friend and he kept telling me what the "gay community" thought about this and that and felt about this and that. I started writing and he said, "What are you writing?"

    I had a list of twelve people we both knew who was all gay and pretty much hated each other. I read the list and said, "I want to invite them over so I can get a photo of the "gay community."

    He laughed. I'm amused by those who believe that gays are all the same. I get sick of the friggin' experts even if they're gay and I get sick of people stereotyping gays even if they're gay.
     
  13. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    King James version of the Bible:
    Romans Chapter 1

    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    1 Corinthians Chapter 6

    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    Always funny to watch the Bible change from version to version so that men can change the words of other men to fit their own agenda and self beliefs. Every version changes just a little, if Jesus Himself did not say it then it comes from Man.
     
  14. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I can't really place a time I when I discovered I was gay. I did have some idea that I was different as a boy, but nobody else noticed. not sure if I really noticed or if it makes sense in retrospect.

    I appreciate your respect. But your written is what I am encouraging here. and I wouldn't be offended nor defensive if somebody were to ask.

    Thanks for the contribution.
     
  15. buddhaman

    buddhaman New Member

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    Because homosexuals have been taught, for generations, to be ashamed of their sexuality. Forced to hide who they were or risk losing jobs, friends, family, their lives. And plenty are still afraid to come out of the closet now and risk family and friends turning their backs on them.
     
  16. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Polydectes: "How do you view what you call gay rights? I mean as opposed to other rights? Why are you against them?"

    Gay rights is a term that is commonly used in the media. People protesting for and against. For liberals it's all about gay rights, women's rights, minority rights--even if they're a majority--and animal rights. I'm against all rights that have an adjective qualifying them. I am opposed to the liberal desire to tribalize American into discrete groups that are something other than just American.

    One of the hot issues is gay marriage. "Marriage" should be a religious ceremony and the government should stay totally out of "marriage" and not grant privileges to people who meet the government-approved definition of married. The government should have, if they choose, civil unions and grant privileges to people with civil unions with equal protection under the law. Granting privileges to some and not others would be, in my opinion, unconstitutional.

    Polydectues: "I have no idea who (Dan Savage) that is."

    I find it hard to believe anyone in American who makes even a modest effort to keep up with the news doesn't know who Dan Savage is but for a gay man to say he doesn't know who Dan Savage is, is truly unbelievable. So, I don't believe it. You can google the name if you want.

    But, I'm curious. Are you planning on being a police officer or are you planning on being a gay police officer?
     
  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    It's something he doesn't understand. And I started this forum for just those types of questions.

    Thanks for the input
     
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    so you are opposed to gay rights because it is tribalism. But you aren't opposed to equal rights for everybody. I can agree with that. But than again I never really cared for identity politics.

    Yeah, I googled Dan savage. All I had ever seen him talk about was infidelity. I don't much care for his opinions and he didn't speak for my husband and I. Even if he claims to speak for gay people.

    Police officer. I would prefer to be treated like everybody else. I don't like the incessant need to identify myself by who I am in a relationship with. I felt different about it as a younger man, but I was really just seeing if everybody would treat me the same. They did until it became the only thing about me that I would talk about. Than I became the gay friend. I adjusted back quickly.
     
  19. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Snakestretcher: "Quote Originally Posted by snakestretcher View Post

    One thing I do have a bit of an issue with is the Gay Pride march thing, because I really don't see the point. I'm not 'proud' to be a heterosexual; I just am one and don't feel a pressing need to advertise the fact. A good friend is a lesbian and she seems to be at pains to let everyone know she is at every available opportunity. I wonder why that is?"

    Don't feel bad, Snakestretcher, but I doubt heterosexuals are proud to have you. I wonder why you felt compelled to tell us you were heterosexual?
     
  20. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    For me the gay debate has always been two separate issues. First off is how people think of and treat homosexuality itself. And secondly is the way the law works regarding those issues.

    I've never been one to try and change people's minds as far as their opinions about homosexuality and homosexuals. I know that's probably a hopeless fight because that kind of change happens organically, not because someone argued you into not hating gay folks. Nor do I think you even have to like gay folks to be in favor of the law being impartial. It is 100% possible to be the biggest gay hater around but still feel the law should not be used to reflect that prejudice or any prejudices.

    The law is the second issue for me, and the one that I tend to lend my voice to. Personal bigotry is "fine" with me, in that I believe it's your right to be as much of a bigot as you feel comfortable with. It should never be illegal to be a homophobe or a racist and you should never have to worry about legal consequences for your thoughts on the matter(social consequences are another matter entirely). But when those prejudicial views make the leap from thought to action, we have a problem. Using the law to reflect your own subjective discomforts with whatever group of people you have a hair on your ass about this week is just wrong and unwise on every single count possible. When the law is abused like that, it opens the door for more and more abuses which can and absolutely will occur.

    And it won't always be to your liking(you being an example of someone who is in favor of using the law to persecute those you don't like).
     
  21. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Polydectes: "Police officer. I would prefer to be treated like everybody else. I don't like the incessant need to identify myself by who I am in a relationship with. I felt different about it as a younger man, but I was really just seeing if everybody would treat me the same. They did until it became the only thing about me that I would talk about. Than I became the gay friend. I adjusted back quickly."

    Perhaps, I wasn't clear. I wasn't asking how other people viewed you. I was asking if you wanted to be a police officer or a gay police officer. Mr. Sam, the football player, choose to not be simply a football player. He chose to be "the" gay football player.

    When the City Manager sent a flunky to ask me if I was gay I said that unless the City Manager was gay and was after my body the question was inappropriate. The flunky said the City Manager wasn't gay so I said whether I was or not was none of his business.

    So, are you planning on being a police officer who is gay or a gay police officer?
     
  22. antb0y

    antb0y New Member

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    Since I've known that sex was even a thing, I never gave much thought to sexuality at all (except for my own, I found that quite interesting) and it never occured to me that it could be sorted in "right" and "wrong" if nobody gets hurt. As a kid I might have felt homosexuality was weird and icky, because that's the general consensus among prepubescent boys, but that faded away quickly.
    Growing up in a small town I didn't know any openly gay people, so of course I had the typical misconceptions about how gays had to be - effeminate, flamboyant etc. - but I still didn't consider it wrong, just different.
     
  23. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    ^Careful with that umbrella, Eugene. Not everyone who rejects political correctness is a "phobe." In fact, one of my biggest problems with this whole issue is the perpetual dishonesty of a lot of the more zealous people within the LGBT movement (straight liberals included) that insists on mislabeling people for the sake of pushing an agenda rather than sincerely listening to them and trying to understand where they are coming from in order to find a solution that works for everybody.


    ^No you don't. Because time after time on this very forum you have proven to be painfully unaware of it in your own words, thoughts, and actions. What you oppose is an arbitrary, socially constructed, politically correct definition of "mindless bigotry." A consensus reality definition that is always determined within the confines of an echo chamber. If you truly want to eradicate mindless bigotry, you should be more open to listening to the people you spend much of your time vilifying. Approach them with sincerity, compassion, and a genuine desire to find common ground rather than looking down on them from a phony high horse of moral superiority. Try reaching out to some of those Christians and conservatives with an open heart instead of just judging them for being different from you. Isn't that what you say you don't like about them? So then how are you any different for behaving the same way?


    How so? If that's the basis for someone's beliefs on the matter, then aren't they just contributing their position openly and honestly? You don't have to agree with it, but I thought the purpose of this thread was for everyone to speak their mind freely on the topic.


    But aren't you attempting to force your own beliefs on Professor Peabody here by shaming him into compliance? Is that not the very same social domination you just chastised him for?

    This is the kind of blind spot I was addressing above in response to snakestretcher. I think a lot of you guys who are so quick to accuse others of being judgmental are not aware of the judgmental qualities within yourselves that you use to shame others.

    Judge not lest ye be judged, remember?
     
  24. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    I'm of the opinion that you can be as gay as you want and it's none of my business...

    UNTIL you start expecting ME to pay for it out of my pockets with MY tax dollars and increasing the costs on goods and services because you're being subsidized. When you're taking money away from me that I worked for, earned and use to help provide for my family then it DOES become my business.

    And anybody who doesn't like that needs to stop feeling as though they have a right to take my money to subsidize their perversion. If you don't want it to be my business then stop demanding my money.
     
  25. Tuatara

    Tuatara Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to share something I noticed. This is on the topic of gay marriage. I belong to several political forums and many times I've seen people state that they are not against gay people but are against gay marriage and they start to go into definitions and such. These same people in other threads will go on to bash gay people using derogatory terms so I always felt the argument about the meaning or the origin of marriage really is just a smokescreen to hide their homophobic views.

    I understand that homosexuals acts can make one uncomfortable and they wish not to see it displayed in public. The gay community are not choosing this lifestyle. This is something ingrained in them. Also those who say they don't support it because of religious text. Why aren't they adamant about people wearing two types of cloth being wrong also?
     

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