Orban in Hungary makes street homeless people to be criminals!

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Mandelus, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Source (only example of many):

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/15/europe/hungary-criminalizes-homelessness-intl/index.html

    For many right wingers in this forum, Victor Orban is considered a kind of hero ... because he opposes the reception of refugees and against the EU.
    How stupid the whole thing is, I had already proven many times with facts and also clearly stated that Orban is on the best way to transform Hungary into a dictatorship. Once again to remember:
    He virtually abolished the entire democratic constitution of Hungary with indispensable core elements such as the separation of powers! With his clear majority in parliament, Orban is able to change and adopt the constitution and laws as he pleases in general.

    If Orban wants to abolish women's electoral rights and equality between men and women, then he can do that and nothing and nobody can democratically prevent him. He does not like criticizing his person in Hungary as a restriction of the Freedom of Speech which makes criticism of him a crime and he can do it without resistance ... a majority vote in parliament and issue is law and part of the constitution!
    Sure ... it is the thing of Hungary and the Hungarian people so far ... or is it only exclusively, if they (hopefully!) Exit the EU again ... but if then still here in the forum people continue to find Orban great and therefore everything that I described automatically find great, then my understanding completely stops!

    Out of this absolute power now comes the latest outrageous and dictatorial action from the Orban government that no one in the world can find great with a little brain in their heads.

    "The new provision, which went into effect Monday, bans "habitual residence in a public space" and gives police the authority to remove rough sleepers from the streets and confiscate their belongings.
    Under amended Article 22 of the revised constitution, homeless people who refuse to go to shelters will be forced to participate in public work programs, which they can avoid only by paying a fine. If they are unable to pay those fines, they will face time in prison."


    The reason reads like naked scorn and ridicule and is a fooling of the people with lies:

    "The minister of state for social affairs and inclusion, Attila Füloep, said Saturday that the law "serves the interest of society as a whole" and that there were "sufficient places in the institutions that provide care for the homeless."

    According to own official statements of the Hungarian ministries and social services, etc. made elsewhere and in other contexts, there are 30 to 40,000 homeless persons + a dark number of unknown and unrecognized persons.
    According to the Hungarian Orban government, however, only 11 to 12,000 ... I quote ... "there are enough places in the institutions that provide care for the homeless." Where are the rest of the people then go, not to be criminal, eh?
    And if you want to take care of the welfare of the entire society on the state side, then it is also necessary to take care of this group of society and not simply to make criminals!
    But since Mussolini and Hitler it has been a guide to the far right wingers in this world to turn minorities and the weakest parts of society into scapegoats for problems in society.
     
  2. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Better to be under their own dictatorship than under yours.

    Sorry the hear Hungary has problems.
    Sorry to hear that you are still butt sore that they rejected your leadership.
     
    BULGARICA likes this.
  3. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry to have to disappoint you and your baseless claims again ...

    Everyone in the EU has only one vote in decisions, regardless of whether it is the big Germany or the small Malta ...
    Germany is the largest economy in the EU and the times when Germany only bravely paid everything and everyone else but otherwise shut up are for all times over ... and that you and others have a problem with it and want to keep the evil Germany small and so it are again the bad Germans then as result, is your problem and I do not care and laugh about this stupidness!
    And if someone joins the EU, then he has to sign and keep contractual obligations. If someone does not want to do, then he should not join the EU or leave the EU again ... but shut his mouth. We are talking about democratic core issues which are not duscussable at all!
    And since Orban does not want to do exactly that as a member, he should leave the EU or stick to the contractual obligations and keep his mouth shut - end of the discussion!

    And what I think is just crazy is when people like you find Orban great and therefore all the things he does in a Hungary and what they and you would never allow in their / your own country to happen!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  4. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one cares.
    The EU is just a trade organisation, remember?
    It's not the Fourth Reich. Much as you want it to be so.

    No one has any particular obligation to you.
    You made some stupid treaties that you are reading too much into because you hope it will deliver world power to you. The ability to dictate your will to foreign countries.
    You know how this all ends. In the total destruction of your country.

    I am unable to look at the evils of Orban because I can't see past you.
    That is the perspective. Giant evil dictatorship calls Orban evil dictator for refusing to do as Giant Evil Dictatorship dictates.

    In short, whenever you mention it, my sympathies automatically go to Orban.
    You are giving him a free pass.

    You aren't in a credible position to pass judgement on these things.
    Pot calls kettle black. No one cares.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
    BULGARICA likes this.
  5. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, no one except you says it's the 4th Reich And this stupid claim comes exactly for the reason that Germany no longer bravely plays the sub as you British want to have it ... and it's just as little the British Empire, where London thinks it's able to patronize half the world as it used to!
    It is an economic and political union ... far from perfect, in many ways wrong but in the sum necessary and next to the NATO guarantee for peace in Europe since 1945!
     
  6. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,269
    Likes Received:
    1,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a good law. If you want to sleep out on the open, go to the woods or something, don't sleep on a bench in the park and turn the country into a bum pigsty. It frustrates the heck out of people. Gesellschaft uber alles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
    BULGARICA likes this.
  7. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No on cares mate.
    You aren't going anywhere.
    You aren't telling your good neighbour Orban what to do.
    You are contained.

    Whinge on about your great power.
    Oh how Versaille humiliated you. Provoked you.
    How you are being provoked once more.

    Yeah yeah. Heard it all before.
    Not a smart plan you've go there my friend. Not smart at all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
    BULGARICA likes this.
  8. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Wit the exception that you are even arrsted if you sleep out in the woods and being caught by police!
    And be aware not become out of whatever bad circumstances by our own ever such a homeless person.
     
  9. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I do not care so far about and wnat to have Orban and his Hungary out of the EU. Fascists and dictators like him have no place there!

    Yep and Versaille humilated us hard indeed and was reaosn why WW-2 broke out... aside fact that Versaille Treaty was a crime in its own in reality. But this is the past and the lesson of the Blitz was learned hard by the Brits as it was hard by the Germans to learn in the bombing raids by the RAF and USAAF in answer.

    And it smart not be further the sub of some clowns of the island who have not got that the UK is not having any empire anymore and the commonwealth is only a rediculous club with no power.

    P.S.

    And it has nothing to do with your Brexit ... because in meantime I want to have you leave out of the EU as soon as possible... if an exit deal is done or not until March 2019, I don't care anymore about...
    But if your economy wents into a free fall down after it, don't even dream about to complain the EU, my country for it or because no deal, becuase your wildest Brexit idiots want to have no deal like this idiot Johnson. I will only laugh about you and make a shrug.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  10. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes mate.
    I'm sure your national humiliation will also be the reason WW3 breaks out too.

    If you don't like the EU, instead of being a fascist and demanding things of other people. Instead of attempting to dictate the rules....Leave it.
    It's not yours.
    You don't rule. You think everyone else is dreaming of the Empire you crave.
    The dictatorship you seek,

    It isn't so.
    We have all the power we need on our own mate.
    No club required.

    If you will not learn to limit your ambitions to yourselves, you know how this all ends,
    You must do it my friend. No one is offering you the choice.

    Be liberal.
    Or else.


    Don;t bother crapping on to me about the primacy of EU rules, the very first country to ever break EU rules was yours. And you still are.
    The rules don't apply to you. Why do you think they apply to others?
    Because you are bigger and you say so, that is why.


    And this is true, But there are those of us who are bigger than you.
    Don't make us tell you what to do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
    BULGARICA likes this.
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You know ... as bad as EU is is many areas rated by my own ... any BS claims towards the EU and for sure against my country bounce off like dirt on teflon!

    All these BS accusing towards us are so far from truth away that the next solar system is closer.
    So in your opinion we Germans have to pay and play the donation and social station for the others, no submit to the will of the others and shut up? Or what is your problem that we are not willing to do this please?

    I guess you will still punish us for WW-2 and think the evil Krauts have no right to be the major power in the EU and to make demands out of it.
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    How do you know that?
     
  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Remember the Shitstorm and putting a halo on Orban's head of all the people here when he rightly got into trouble because of contract violation from the EU.
    All the backgrounds were totally unimportant ... important once again was that he started against the EU, no matter what a bastard the guy actually is. ... see my note in the OP, which contains proven facts!
     
  14. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,874
    Likes Received:
    804
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What Orban does in Hungary is domestic policies and no one should really care what right wingers or others on this forum think about him. Whatever is posted here doesn't have any impact on international politics. Orban was elected by Hungarian voters, so whether we like that or not, he and his government are in charge. He does restrict the media, he doesn't follow EU rules and at the same time receives hundreds of millions and more from the EU. Austrian chancellor Kurz has already suggested Hungary and Poland should only receive a reduced amount of EU grants. Hungary shouldn't have been allowed to join the union in the first place.
    Regarding this forum, we also have to keep in mind that the vast majority here isn't from Europe and our yank friends are usually painfully clueless on non-'merican politics.
     
    BULGARICA likes this.
  15. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female

    I was only questioning you suggesting a person supporting Orban would not allow that to happen to his own country, England. The Tories of course were also recently supporting Orban. Surely if people are supporting him it suggests they like what he is doing and hence would try and make similar so in their own country, England.
     
  16. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No mate.
    You Germans get to do what you please and no one gets to tell you what to do.

    Liberalism.

    Until you start telling other people what to do.
    And then other people get to tell you what to do.

    Fascism.

    So, I offer you Liberalism.
    If you will not accept it, I'm going to give you fascism instead.
    And my fascism is greater than yours.

    So be liberal.
     
    BULGARICA likes this.
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,762
    Likes Received:
    14,563
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This topic is really about illegal immigration which is a bad thing. We all know that.

    I'm of the belief that more government is bad government. I'm surprised all those European countries fell for the EU concept. The end of the EU was predictable when it was first proposed. All those European countries will be better off after the EU fails.
     
    BULGARICA likes this.
  18. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes.
    What is your point? Should Hungarians vote for his opposition who have been (and continue) to support the cultural destruction of their country by waves of migrants just because you say Orban "might" turn into a werewolf at the next full moon?

    Orban did not cause the problem with migrants in Europe but you think the population should support the people who did cause the problem. Are you not old enough to vote?
     
    BULGARICA and Mac-7 like this.
  19. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female

    I may be misunderstanding Mandelus but what I see him saying is that, to the far right that is what it is about...that is all they speak about...but really what Orban is creating in Hungary is the infrastructure for Dictatorship. You possibly are doing the same in the US. Possibly he is questioning how many of you also support that. Hungary has only a handful of refugees - most wanted out of there asap.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  20. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Every Hungarian man, woman, and child knows what is happening:

     
    BULGARICA and Canell like this.
  21. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I am not American. I am European. The reason that Hungary has "only a handful of refugees" is because the Hungarians have seen what the migrants have done to my country. Hurrah for Hungary!

    If you want to minimize the possibility of your country turning into a Dictatorship then the alternative has to be Democratic principles in working order. You cannot deny your people Democratic processes and expect them to support you. If you refuse to be a Democratic nation then you are already Fascist/Dictatorship. That is a fact, my friend. It is very simple.
     
  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Nonsense.
    That is pretty much it. Now check out the OP again.
     
  23. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    9,641
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Presumably anyone they detain for homelessness, they will have to house.

    Oh the evil.

    If only they had let the EU pick their high court judges for them.
    And their immigration policy.

    Now they are ruled by Hitler.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  24. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Gosh! That was well thought-out and itemized. What are you talking about? What are you referring to? Is it a Tourette's blurb without substance?
    1). The EU representatives are not Democratically elected to their posts.
    2). Orban is offering his political savvy by Democratic means.

    Your turn.
     
  25. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2015
    Messages:
    12,410
    Likes Received:
    2,689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In every country you will find this or that political party which supports Orban or find it good what he does ... this is normal.
    The point is and here you are right with that I suggested it ... is that you in your country will for sure not allow following what happened in Hungary:

    Let's say the Tories got a fat total majority in parliament after an election and then start to change your constitution and switching off your highest court. In short, you will for sure being upset if they have ... as it is Hungary ... the possibility to change something constitution with majority in parliament only and no one and nothing can stop it legally!
    But then there are people here in this forum .... maybe not you, no idea :) ... who are then cheering Orban for his opposition agains the EU and the refugee problem by ignoring that he has done such evil things too.
     

Share This Page