Orban in Hungary makes street homeless people to be criminals!

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Mandelus, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Apply this to yourself.
    Your country was the first to break the rules and has broken them for longer than any other EU member.

    The same rules you forced to be applied on Greece, you yourself are in breach of.

    Why? Because you have more power. That is why.
    It is not rules that you respect. It is your own power to make others do as you say.

    Rationalisations and justifications for this "the rule of law" are a nonsense.
    You ignore rules that you don't like when they apply to you.


    You use laws to rule others. But won't allow others to use laws to rule you.
    Anyone, anyone at all who chooses to abide by one of your laws is a fool.

    You pretend moral high ground but you have none. This is a powerplay. Plain and simple.
    Might over right.


    If you wish the EU to be strong and lasting, the more rules you can abandon, the better. Long leash not short.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  2. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If there's be no possibility of there being a roof over their heads, then they shouldn't go there? No country can magic up thousands of homes?
     
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  3. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Torygraph suggests 20,000 homeless, 11,000 spaces in shelters.

    What do you suggest is going to happen to the homeless that get arrested?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  4. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    What kind of nonsense are you telling here? Where did we wjhat rule break please?
    There was only one issue temporarely where had a short problem end of the 90's to fullfill the deficit in % for the Euro ... but notr alone and we fulldilled it in time!

    Name me examples where German broke rules of the EU!
     
  5. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    As it is not my responsibilitiy to teach you the truth and realities ...
     
  6. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Mate, the problem is that there are about 30 to 40,000 homeless in Hungary ... mostly Hungarians and not emigarants! ... plus a unknown dark number and there are only about 11,000 placed for them where they should go by this new law.
    So by pure maths, what shall the rest do which has no place to fullfill the law?
    Attention irony .... perhaps they shall directly voluntarily knock on the front door of the prisons and ask for imprisonment?
    I mean ... the idea is not that bad, because they have a roof over their heads then and not being further homeless, but having no freedom, etc.!
     
  7. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    How many residencies or buildings are empty just sitting there? There is no excuse for any government letting any portion of the population to suffer needlessly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  8. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Budget rules.
    France and Germany broke them first.
    As far as I know you are still breaking them but very very close to hitting the target within a % or two this year

    Either way I don't care. You break the rules. You set the example that rules can be broken and ignored without sanction as long as you are as powerful as Germany or France.
    And we all know that's true. Greece broke the same rules and got shafted, Cyprus too. Italy is breaking the same rules and is going to get a pass.

    So what does that mean? It means you have created a legal system to aid the powerful oppress the weak.
    Well done. I suggest you stop using it before people over throw you.

    When it comes to rules, less is more.
    The less people have to rebel against, the less they rebel.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  9. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    They shouldn't be arrested, homeless people shouldn't be jailed and penalized for being destitute. Build more shelters and create actual programs that lift people out of poverty.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  10. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    We don't need to go back to medieval times where people were forced into labor camps just because of the unfortunate circumstances of being destitute.

    This is no way to move forward into the future.
     
  11. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know. Do you? If there are any though, native Roumanians should have them rather than foreigners, don't you agree?
     
  12. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    The Gulags built themselves.

    Certainly free labour in exchange for shelter. Making yourself housing using other people's resources, isn't a totally abhorrent concept to me. It's not the worst kind of slavery I can think of.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  13. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    Domestic national citizens of course should come first before any foreigners and if they live in the nation illegally obviously need to be deported.

    Here in the United States there are literally thousands upon thousands of empty uninhabited homes or abandoned buildings.
     
  14. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    The gulags is a communist solution to things none of which I think anybody should embrace.
     
  15. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    Teach them to labor for themselves and provide a living of independence that they can aspire towards, not laboring for others.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  16. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    10,000 people without shelter.
    That's an available labour pool and an available demand.

    Should we pull labour off other jobs so they can sit on arse and watch people build homes for them?

    These people are going to be arrested.
    What is to be done with them?

    Might as well have them fix the problem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  17. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    No, they should contribute something for themselves and public society but also be compensated for it.
     
  18. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But legallly or illegally, it's best to forewarn migrants that there won't be any accommodation, rather than compound their dire situation by having to deport them upon arrival, isn't it? That's all Orban is doing, and it seems perfectly logical and humane to me.
     
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  19. BULGARICA

    BULGARICA Banned

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    I'll be honest with you. I read two sentences of your post and the link to Fake News Media that you posted to realize what's this about. Wasn't CNN the media, that called the Pierce Morgan dullard to bash guns and "America's stupid obsession with guns"? That's enough of a proof what exactly "media" CNN is.

    Hungary criminalizing homelessness. Good. He's cleaning the streets so tourists won't watch at beggars all day. And you maybe don't know, but in Bulgaria 90% of the beggars actually work for the Mafia. Come here in Varna for a beer and I'll personally have you meet an alleged "homeless man" that gets picked by a black Mercedes-Benz G63 AMG every single night, at the end of his working day.

    Me personally, I think homeless can find places to live outside cities. I've seen homeless camps in the woods. They can light a fire, can build a camp, I've seen that. Where will they sleep in the cities? Around noise and on cold cement? Homeless are mostly in LA and San Francisco because of the hot weather there but the sights are deplorable. Bacteria and viruses. Dirt. Begging. It's ugly. It's dangerous. Homeless can be sometimes very dangerous. I don't want to see that in cities, or in major cities.

    Orban's policy has been so far very successful. They have no illegals, no refugees, no people of color. And before you attack me with the typical "You're a racist!", it's what they want. And I respect their choice. Hungary wants to preserve their heritage - as a proud Kingdom and once an Empire. I don't blame them. Plus, trust me, Budapest is more beautiful than any other European or American city. Hats off, Hungary is way better and more beautiful that Bulgaria. And I'm Bulgarian. It's hard for me to admit that but it's reality. I've traveled more times to Hungary and Romania than to any other country around.

    @Draco
    @Baff
    @Carl Von Clausewitz
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  20. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    And you don't think a free house is great compensation?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  21. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    Of course, Orban is a reasonable man protecting his nation from the invasion of foreign immigration but it sounds like this homeless problem extends well into the sphere of native indigenous Hungarians also.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  22. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Ehm ... are you sure you informed you well enough about the issue you are writing about? I have doubts ... so let me explain the issue!

    The mentioned violation of the Budget Rules refers exclusively to the Euro, not the EU. Already forgot that the euro and EUI are not the same, because all EU members also have the euro as their currency, eh?

    This is only about the conditions that were laid down in the Maastricht Treaty at the time, which states that new borrowing should not be more than 3% of the state budget in order to import the euro and that this 3% must be kept after that. Otherwise there is trouble like now at Italy!
    That is also completely correct, because all participating states must have stable national budgets, otherwise those who keep to it will pay the waste of others where they do not comply. Then you can let that be synonymous with the introduction of the euro, etc.!

    It is true that Germany and France at that time had problems to meet this 3% before the introduction ... but they did it and in the case of Germany we do not just do that, we have no public deficit but a plus ... what we are for yes also among others and elsewhere you have been referred to again as evil Germans!

    So your objection is again wrong and refuted.
     
  23. Carl Von Clausewitz

    Carl Von Clausewitz Well-Known Member

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    People can't survive on shelter alone, they need the ability to be independent eventually which means jobs, income, and education outside of shelter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  24. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Much the same as it is here in the UK - there's a chronic housing shortage.
     
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  25. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    you and I ... we are in political view more away as 2 galaxies in the space .. but here I agree with you and more as that: This is the reason why I made this thread, because I find it impudent what Orban does here !
     
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