Oregon Senate Cancels Saturday Session Amid Reports of Militia Groups Protesting at Capitol

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Egoboy, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    113
    An example of how/what business in Oregon will be leaving overseas.
    I'm saying that climate change is a real thing, the planet is dying, regulations are there because if business is left without them they are their/our own worst enemy just for chasing a buck. If you're ok with that.....I don't really care, you're wrong.
    Really.
     
  2. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, I have a real problem with politicians playing politics.....which the Republicans are doing here.
    One side considers the environment in an emergency stage.....one doesn't. One is wrong.
    Both sides play politics.....all the time. I could ask the same question to you. Doesn't matter.
    Do you really think all the Republicans have read it........I think not.
     
  3. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm an athiest. I don't believe in your religion. Government has no business imposing a state religion upon me.

    But you miss my point.

    How is it better to drive businesses out of this country and to other countries that don't give a crap about pollution?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  4. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know what you're talking about with the religious reference (I do but it's not....well) maybe that kind of statement passes for cleaver in you circle (small as it must be).
    I got your point, I just don't think it's a good one and really just an avoidance to answering MY question to you. You don't have an answer, I get it, just admit it.
     
  5. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You deny that we have driven our businesses out of the country. Until you come to that realization, you are unable to speak credibly on the subject.
     
  6. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can you show what business have left the country because of over regulation? The question was about Oregon businesses but since you insist on pounding this drum please show me that you can prove your point.
    One will do.
     
  7. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    Messages:
    12,436
    Likes Received:
    7,394
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Exactly... imagine those poor Alabama Democrats watching a bunch of grouchy old white men attempt to control women's choice.... didn't see any of those folks walking out...

    Speaking of which, did you see this news? Sounds like the good folks at Planned Parenthood are moving forward in the state of Neanderthals (plus Roy Moore)

    https://www.apnews.com/a3158df18ff4483da851eb3544c2997b
     
  8. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Go to Walmart. Look at where stuff is made.

    Look at our industries. Steel, auto, mining, clothing, furniture. These have all left because of our policies.

    There's a damn cloud of pollution over our west coast. It comes from China. Brazil clear-cuts forests to raise beef for our markets. We are only exporting our pollution and environmental degredations and jobs to other parts of the planet.

    If your religion demands those results, you should choose a different religion. We have standards here, already. We don't need to add to the pollution of the world by driving even more industry to the polluting nations.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  9. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don't understand Oregon. It is a three industry state, forestry products, high tech, and active apparel and shoes. There is this weird connection between high tech and the love of nature. It may arise from the necessity of naturalism to make high tech possible. In the up coming Census cycle, Oregon is slated to gain a House seat. Much of Oregon's population growth has been due to growth in the high tech sector, thus a greater share of the vote. And since it was the natural beauty that brought high tech here in the first place, and being that high tech is bringing in the greater part of the states income, the voice of environmental protection in Oregon is quite strong. The active apparel sector also relies on Oregon's natural beauty. To allow increases in pollution in Oregon is to destroy what Oregon is.
     
    9royhobbs likes this.
  10. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    5,991
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here's more:

     
  11. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You have farming, ranching, paper mills, and mining also. They are all fuel intensive industries. Go ahead and try to tell me that farmers don't care about environmental issues.

    Your shoes are made in China.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  12. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't know that Vietnam was in China.
     
    9royhobbs likes this.
  13. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why waste your time with worthless posts?
     
  14. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You said that my shoes were made in China. However the tag on my shoes clearly says Made in Vietnam.

    Nike is headquartered here in Oregon, and I think that most, if not all the design work is done here. However, I think that the only thing they make here are the logos. The Nike swooshes are made here and then shipped to where their shoes and stuff are made. I'm pretty sure that the Nike business model, from its inception, was to have its manufacturing all over the world, to be a truly global company.
     
  15. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The corporate profits go to Oregon. Hey, there's nothing wrong with that. It means that there is money going into that state.

    The manufacturing, and the jobs, are outside of the country.

    The farming, ranching, paper mills, and mining are in Oregon. Those provide jobs for Oregonians. The cap and trade bill will be just another straw on tbe camel's back. It could very well break some camels.

    My shoes are made in San Antonio, Texas.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  16. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I grew up on a farm so I have a pretty good idea about how farms work. Quite simply, unless you have some massive industrial farm, there is no way that this cap and trade bill is going to effect farmers. You would have to be running the equivalent of more than a thousand tractors every day, in order to hit the limits where the law comes into effect. The companies that are probably going to be hit hardest are steel fabricators. Maybe the paper mills. But they have all closed, haven't they? The one at Willamette Falls closed like a decade ago, and the one in Camas a couple of years ago. Actually there aren't that many companies in Oregon that pollute much. I don't think that anyone is burning coal anymore, and most of the electricity is hydroelectric.

    In fact, the worse pollution tends to be chemical leaks, not carbon emissions. Glass factories don't put out too much carbon, but they do send out toxic fumes if filters are not in place. It seems to me that regulation of such facilities should be more of a concern. The silicon factories also don't emit a lot of carbon. But there is always the risk of the release of toxic chemicals, in the air, the ground, and the water. However, it seems that boat fabricators have traditionally been the worst polluters.
     
    9royhobbs likes this.
  17. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    19,392
    Likes Received:
    5,520
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then develop the other sources of energy first, make sure they are reliable, clean, effective, and affordable. Then proceed with the increased taxation. Do not jump straight to the taxation on the basis that something better will be developed by that time.
     
  18. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Stop
    If you want to make an argument about over regulating business then do it but your post is all over the place and not making a point about over regulating business. Again, name ONE business that went overseas due to overregulation. Your post points to cheap labor not over regulation.
     
  19. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You forget that in the meantime the planet is dying. That's not "the sky is falling" BS, that's a fact. Look at all the plastic in the oceans as an example.
     
  20. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    9,066
    Likes Received:
    1,691
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Anybody that thinks over-regulation has no impact on the economy has their head in the sand. Companies do not just box their company up and move it lock-stock-and barrel overseas, they find overseas investors and even overseas buyer to buy their company. The overseas buyers see US businesses as being attractive because they often reap the benefits at a much lessor expense than any competitors that remain in the US.

    Here is a link of 10 companies that were once US staples, but are now owned by over-seas investors/owners:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/21/10-iconic-us-companies-that-have-moved-headquarters-abroad.html

    Then, you also have the impact of the jobs once done in the US that are now done over-seas. Higher regulations increase costs (including minimum wage regulations, higher retirement regulations, union demands, etc), which increase inflation, which increase the higher demand of pay from labor.

    Here is a link of 15 companies that laid off US workers for the cheaper labor over-seas:

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/american-companies-sent-jobs-overseas.html/

    Then you have the US Chamber of Commerce own report from 2013 that shows that the EPA's claim that environmental regulations are increasing jobs was a completely bogus report and explains how these regulations are actually killing jobs:

    https://www.uschamber.com/report/im...s-oft-repeated-claims-regulations-create-jobs

    It is the ripple effect of Regulations that kills jobs. Regulations impact many aspects of our economy....like pay, overhead, inflation, etc. When combined, this makes the US a poor job market when there are cheaper job markets over-seas where a company can maintain the same service at a lessor cost. I am not saying that environmental regulations are not important, but they do need to be implemented at a gradual pace to insure the burden has less of an impact on the economy. Our environment is a global issue, not just a National issue. It does no good to make our environment pristine if other countries do not do the same. It really amazes me how some people can not make the connection between over-regulation and the desire to use cheaper labor market over-seas.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    Lee S and Thought Criminal like this.
  21. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,655
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can't think of a better response than to refer you to a previous post on another thread:

    If you're interested in finding a company that was driven overseas solely through regulation, search for yourself. I haven't made that claim anywhere. You might have noticed that I haven't responded to your strawman. I'm not interested in getting sucked into it.
     
  22. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    8,194
    Likes Received:
    683
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course this bill will effect farmers. Farmers and ranchers need to ship their grain, cattle and produce to market. Shipping companies will definitely be paying as much as $5.60 per gallon of fuel for carbon credits alone, on top of the cost of the fuel, (this is according to the Democrats who wrote the bill) by 2030. Farmers and ranchers are going to need to ship in hay, seed, and a host of other products , which they will also be paying exorbitant prices for shipping. If you have a thousand acre wheat farm, which by the way is not that large when compared to agribusiness, then running a tractor to furrow and seed and a combine to harvest the wheat will get you into the carbon credits. As I was told when growing up on a farm, diesel goes in and food comes out.

    The other major group to take a hit will be loggers. Timber is seriously fuel intensive.

    The farmers may be able to offset these costs in the form of higher food prices if Oregon wasn't the only state to commit economic suicide, but so far, no other state has been stupid enough to try to kill off agricultare and logging.

    So, if you eat food or live in a house made of timber, then you are going to be paying more for food and shelter.
     
    vman12 and Nunya D. like this.
  23. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    48,041
    Likes Received:
    28,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, I mean it only affects the prices of literally everything you buy, but sure.

    I hope it does go into effect, as I said. Both to hear the leftists screeching "how did muh kale smoothie go up a dollar", to the people who saw it coming laughing at them.
     
    Lee S likes this.
  24. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    19,392
    Likes Received:
    5,520
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And increases taxes on fuel will serve to change all of this, and immediately stop the planet from supposedly dying? Consumers paying a few extra cents for each gallon of fuel is all that is needed to correct this issue?
     
    Thought Criminal likes this.
  25. 9royhobbs

    9royhobbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    6,073
    Likes Received:
    1,406
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you, you at least answered the question......but
    The first link is companies that left for tax reasons. Is that over regulation? No, companies always want and never give.
    The second (as you pointed out) is for cheap labor. Is that over regulation? No, should we work for nothing?
    The third gets to the actual question. The EPA. Do they over regulate? Yeah, probably some but what's the alternative? Left alone corporations would do ANYTHING to make the bottom line better and if the environment or people (Flint) get in the way.......thoughts and prayers to them.
    As far as implementing regulations at a gradual pace don't you think that has been tried and because of lobbyists they get stomped on so that they have to be upped to make up for time lost.
     
    AZ. likes this.

Share This Page