Oregon's decriminalization of hard drugs, will it work?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Reasonablerob, Nov 21, 2020.

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Will Oregon's decriminalization of hard drugs work?

  1. No, every junkie in America will head there and turn it into Mad Maxville

    5 vote(s)
    26.3%
  2. Probably not but it won't be as bad as some fear

    6 vote(s)
    31.6%
  3. Impossible to tell

    3 vote(s)
    15.8%
  4. It will work but not as well as some hope

    3 vote(s)
    15.8%
  5. It will be a smashing success and the first step in universal legalisation

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
  1. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know myself, morally I'm opposed but at the same time the war on drugs has clearly failed so maybe it's about time to try something new?
     
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  2. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    This was a tough choice for me because the legalization of recreational marijuana here in Colorado has, overall, been a success. It has also brought in a hell of a lot of needed tax revenue (which was the most prominent reason I voted in favor of it).

    Hard drugs...? I dunno, honestly. Here, I voted that it probably won't work -- and by that I mean that what it is likely to do is litter the population with even more fugged-up addicts who end up being on welfare-for-life. We Americans used to be rich enough to tolerate that kind of thing, but not any longer -- and especially if the number of indigent, drug-addicted parasites increases enormously (which it almost certainly will).

    With full legalization should also be an understanding that, "If YOU want to indulge in drugs of ANY kind, the responsibility for YOUR actions is entirely (ENTIRELY) on YOU, and not the taxpayers of Oregon!"

    But, then an army of vote-pandering Democrat social workers and other liberal stooges enter the scene, and the next thing you know, taxpayers are providing "welfare-for-life" after all -- just to keep roving hordes of homeless addicts from spreading disease, pissing, puking, and sh!tting in the streets even more than they do right now....
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  3. (original)late

    (original)late Banned

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    Portugal made it work.
     
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  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Will it work at what?

    I'm sure civilization will survive it long enough to be toppled by something else first.
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    It will work. I don't know what expectations are and what exactly constitutes a smashing success, so I didn't select a poll answer. But the war on drugs has been a disaster that made war zones out of the inner cities. And it has never made sense to make human weakness and human nature a crime. The use of drugs [which includes the very powerful drug called alcohol] has always been part of the human experience. Addiction and abuse are health issues and should be treated accordingly.

    Fun fact and a must for any bucket list: The Maya used tobacco enemas to induce hallucinations.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  6. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Decriminalizing brings no benefits to the state and the public other than perhaps saving whatever money would have been spent on dealing with drug arrests and convictions. But I suspect that the gains there will be offset by the need for additional spending in other areas.

    Only legalization will be truly beneficial, for two reasons. Legalizing will cut into the illegal drug trade, one of the primary drivers of crime. And it will bring tax revenue if it can legally sold and taxed. Presumably some or all of that money would then need to be invested in anti addiction programs and treatments. Being that we're already in the middle of an opioid epidemic, decriminalizing or legalizing harder drugs are only going to add to the need for that those services when they are already stretched thin.

    I don't think the "war on drugs" has been a failure because I don't think anyone should have ever expected it to stop the drug flow. We know we'll never be able to stop all of the drugs and the people bringing them, but we shouldn't make it easier for them than it already is.

    Imagine how much more drugs there would be if the threat of legal consequences is removed. And as long as the drug trade is still driven mainly by gangs and organized crime, society only stands to lose.
     
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Well, plenty of people did believe that. And it is a miserable failure because it made things far worse instead of making things better. I know. I lived in the middle of it.

    However, I agree that legalization is ultimately where this needs to be.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  8. Bridget

    Bridget Well-Known Member

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    Oregon is already lost. So who cares?
     
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  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    remember, the abuse is there legal or not, just one makes criminals of those that did not abuse

    the war on drugs is a failure

    "5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results" April 7, 2009


    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization


    "Ten Years After Decriminalization, Drug Abuse Down by Half in Portugal"


    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...lization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, just like with alcohol, commit a crime while under the influence, arrest them for the crime, but not just for relaxing with a joint or having a little fun on the dance floor

    the war on drug was a failure as it made criminals of non-criminals, funded gangs and did more harm to society than the drugs ever could
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  11. joesnagg

    joesnagg Well-Known Member

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    I'm not familiar with the particulars of this. Is it decriminalization of possession for personal use while sales remain illegal? Will heroin and meth addicts become gainfully employed to feed their ever increasing habits, or will the state eventually provide a stipend to help ease the financial burden or perhaps supply the drugs? If you've ever dealt with hard drug addicts in a clinical setting (as I have) the physical, psychological, and moral devastation hard drugs wreaks on the individual beggars description. Agreed, criminal penalties haven't worked, but then a concerted and comprehensive effort at treatment and rehabilitation hasn't been tried either. My cynical take on it; incarceration costs money, treatment costs money, time to try a little "social Darwinism" under a more palatable moniker and hope hard and highly addictive drug use drops by attrition. I don't see it happening, just lots of inevitable death, crime, and MORE addicts.
     
  12. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    * It will work but not as well as some hope
    I voted this one. I think legalizing hard drugs will work a little bit. My main concern is that people who take heavy drugs might end up altering their appearance in a bad way. On the other hand legalization makes it likely that drugs to treat overdoses might get invented once testing of hard drugs is legalized.
     
  13. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Proponents of drug prohibitions
    don't consider the crimes we suffer
    as users are driven to acquire their
    necessary funds.

    I opt for less likelihood of burglary.
    Also State dispensaries are a means
    to strike a blow on organized crime.


    Great book. From the Consumer's Report folks
    https://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Na...umer+union+report+drugs&qid=1605992069&sr=8-2
    Conclusion - prohibitions don't work even under threat of
    death or mutilation. The tobacco chapter is great.
    And a history that is only about 500 years to its' origin.

    Moi :oldman:




    Canadian-Mobster-1.jpg
    How far will the :flagcanada: mob go
    to deliver their drugs across the

    unguarded, ethereal border?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  14. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    one other thing about prohibition is family and friends have a hard time getting people help, as they fear if they try, they will get them locked up for years - they want to get them help, not ruin their lives
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if one supports gangs and terrorists, they like prohibition laws as prohibition funds these groups

    prohibitionists admit this, this was one of their ads in support of prohibition laws

     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  16. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In 1911, you could buy a couple ampules of clean pharmaceutical grade heroin and a new hype kit for $1:98 from the Sears Catalog. There was actual cocaine in the original Coca Cola, you could grow and sell all the weed you wanted, you could buy a mixture of morphine alcohol and cocaine over the counter at drugstores across the country.

    There was no drug problem or gang turf wars or crime associated with drug use until the idiotic drug laws were passed and became more draconian over the decades. The war on drugs has served to give police agencies the power to ignore the Bill Of Rights and stick their noses into our cars, our houses and our lives in general. It has also turned the relationship between banks and their customers. Not too long ago, banks acted as a fiduciary of it’s clients and respected the client’s privacy. Not so anymore. Today’s banks and bankers are reduced to being informants for the IRS, DEA, FBI,ATF and any other federal, state and local police agencies who stab their clients in the back and inform on them without even giving them notice. How disgusting is that?

    If that isn’t enough, because of this war on drugs, there is an army of roadside thieves patrolling our highways trained to circumvent what is left of the Bill Of Rights and weasel their way into your vehicle looking for drugs, money, gold jewelry or any other valuable items then confiscate them without even charging a crime. Our representatives and strict constitutionalists conservative judges have deemed that once an officer steals your money or other valuables, YOU MUST PROVE WHERE YOU GOT THEM. We need to end this idiotic criminal “War On Drugs” and get back to being the LAND OF THE FREE again.
     
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  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All true, except there was still a drug problem. The problem then was the addictiveness of the products containing those drugs. That problem still exists, of course, and is far exascerbated by that addiction turning addicts into outlaws, so the problem is alot worse now.

    The point is that not all problems have a solution. But the authorities are happy to take our money and our liberties in an exchange for promising to fix the unfixable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  18. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only reason that it is a lot worse now is that substances that cost about $20 a pound to produce now cost $50,000 a pound on the streets. Of course that will create crime. Look at what happened as a result of prohibition of alcohol. It turned a legal, profitable, All American enterprise into a bloody street war. Same is true in the case of drugs, hard or soft. In a free society, people are going to abuse substances. Alcohol, Food, Drugs, Cigarettes etc. However what has happened by design is that Drugs, drug enforcement and prisons have become a multi trillion dollar industry because of the laws. The so called good guys in this war rake in far more than the outlaw dealers. The Bill Of Rights has been shredded because of them. Warrantless searches and thefts all over our highways and city streets are commonplace now. Our banks are now just a network of informants for money grubbing, intrusive and tyrannical police agencies. Enough is enough.
     
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  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And just as we're starting to pull ourselves out of this drug war mess, we're ramping up to declare war on guns, which is, of course, doomed to precisely the same dynamics.
     
  20. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Decriminalisation isn't an end to the "war on drugs". The production, importation and sale of drugs remain illegal (and if anything, should get more law-enforcement attention). The only legal change is that possession and use of drugs in small amounts is decriminalised (not legalised). The sole purpose is to avoid criminalising users, dropping them in to a descending cycle of prison, more drug use and greater criminality. Instead, much more treatment and support measures are put in place, seeking to get users off drugs before they destroy their lives.

    It's a policy that can work very well but all aspects of it need to be committed to and I'd fear public ignorance and political objection could be a major obstacle in the US. For example, it should be made perfectly clear that despite what one of the poll answers suggests, decriminalisation is very much not a step towards legalisation. If anything, it's a step away from that, with an even greater focus on the idea that drug use is a bad thing that society should work towards combatting.
     
  21. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not in favor of gun confiscation either.
     
  22. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Solution:

    Guns: No license, No permit, No registration. Open or concealed.
    Mandatory jail time for the "unlawful" discharge.

    Drugs: Incarceration for being under the influence and posing
    a risk to others, such as driving while under the influence.


    Moi :oldman:
    Anti Prohibition




    Don't :flagcanada:ize
    :flagus:
     
  23. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not really, people hate it.

    Sure it keeps them out of jail but they get mandatory drug rehab which is both costly and time consuming.

    Many people there would rather spend a little time in jail and be done with it instead of this rehab thing hanging over them.
     
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  24. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    We all agree that we cant stop the flow of Drugs into America. But by all measures, we have lost. Not only did we not stop the flow, the flow has increased, and prices for illegal drugs have gone down. By all measures, thats a lose.

    That being said. I would rather my tax dollars go to rehabilitation centers and mental health institutes instead of prisons to deal with these kind of people. Addiction is an illness.
     
  25. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Id much rather my tax dollars go to rehabilitation as opposed to locking them in jail.
     

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