Paid Parental Leave: How Republicans Learned To Love A Democratic Priority

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Marcotic, Dec 13, 2019.

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Do you believe Federaly Mandated paid maternity leave is good?

  1. Yes for federal workers

    1 vote(s)
    4.8%
  2. Yes and it should be extended for all sectors

    11 vote(s)
    52.4%
  3. No

    9 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. ModCon

    ModCon Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you can't keep Trump's name out of your mouth!
     
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  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Well he is the president and you have to admit he does keep himself in the spot light
     
  3. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he is the President. Leader of the free world. :)
     
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  4. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they can't afford to have the child without taxpayer help, they cannot afford to have the child period. That is just common sense. How could anyone so misconstrue the realities of life? I am not your baby's daddy. I have no desire to pay for you or your baby's sustenance. YOU do that. (you is used in the generic sense, referring to people that think I should subsidize their reproductive desires.)
     
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  5. ModCon

    ModCon Well-Known Member

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    That's intentional, if you haven't figured it out yet.
     
  6. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure about the tax rate comparison, but are you saying that Canada's population has reached the point where they decided they have "enough free stuff"? You feel that the entitled American's quest for free stuff will actually have an end? Nah, the greed for other people's stuff will never stop.

    But maybe you are right, the quest for free could end - a massive UBI which would allow the entitled to sit around smoking dope 24/7/365/85 without a worry in the world. But the country would implode before that happens.
     
  7. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    UBI will one day become necessary imo — automation is going to displace tens of millions of jobs.

    I know it isn’t popular with the right but we desperately need some type of medical reform.
    People should not have to worry about treatment or their home — that’s unacceptable.
     
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  8. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I really wish he would say we are implementing environmental regulations, a public platform for healthcare, reforming education, mandating equal treatment in legal aspects for all Americans and requiring registration on weapons just so these issues would suddenly become acceptable and good in the eyes of the right. I have never witnessed a single man have so much control over his base outside of cults — yeh...
     
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  9. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I do think about the future and the effects of automation, and what the solution will be. But we are not even close to that yet.

    No, what is unacceptable is the lack of personal responsibility that is so widespread today. Many think they deserve everything for free simply because they were born. Damn, go to freaking work! (hypothetical remark)
     
  10. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Depends on the implementation of each of those things - I can easily disagree with Trump, not a problem. I am absolutely against taxpayer funded maternity leave and against government mandating an employer to pay maternity leave, and if Trump is for those things, then I am against Trump when it comes to that. It is possible to agree with a person on some things and disagree on others, it isn't all or nothing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  11. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Medical issues can cause financial burdens that no one can climb out of — no matter how much they work, especially if they don’t have a spouse and have children.
    Some medical issues can span decades and even with a good insurance plan the out of pocket could be tens of thousands per year — not many family budgets can absorb that. It was even worse when plans could deny pre-existing conditions.
     
  12. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Well I always loved where my work/opportunity was, but I see your point, kinda!
     
  13. Shonyman32

    Shonyman32 Well-Known Member

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    People should have to worry. That's life.

    UBI is wrong for majority of people. The same people that want UBI are the people who think taking the lazy people off of food stamps is a bad thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  14. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People should have to worry... that should be the new Republican moto.
     
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  15. Shonyman32

    Shonyman32 Well-Known Member

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    I worry everyday that my company might downsize ----so I saved money

    I worry everyday my 401k, mutual funds, Roth, or other investments do bad-----so I diversified

    I worry my house will catch fire----so I have fire extinguishers

    I worry of getting mugged or robbed---so I carry

    I worry of a car crash----so I wear my seatbelt

    No one deserves UBI. Nothing wrong with disability and helping those in need but if someone cant worry enough about their own future they should fail.

    I dont label myself republican but I do label myself conservative. Conservatism generally falls closer to Republicans in our 2 party system. If you say that should be the republican moto then the democrat moto should be Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer or Workers of the world, unite.
     
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  16. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't make any sense. Obviously if you can't afford a child without taxpayers help and you can with taxpayers help, you can afford a child, with taxpayers help. Very few could afford to educate their children without taxpayers help but they can with that help. Perhaps you begrudge public education, too. It seems to have worked out well.

    The reality of life is that without a next generation the culture dies. I do not want to see that happen. I don't think you want that to happen either. I am quite happy to subsidize their reproductive desires and you should be also. The alternative is more immigrants bringing with them alien cultures.

    But perhaps you don't care about the future and are concerned only with your personal desires. Then we have a philosophical difference that cannot be resolved through discussion. I have a vision of the future. You have a vision of your personal life.

    That family leave has become desirable or even necessary is unfortunate. I would rather return to the time that a man could earn enough money to support a stay at home wife and a bunch of kids. A step back toward that time is good.
     
  17. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We leave "sick days" up to the company. They can offer as many as they want. And if an employee doesn't like the company policy, they can work somewhere else. The idea that the government should dictate what we can do is abhorrent to most Americans.

    At my company, I get 40 days (eight weeks) per year to use how I want ... vacation days, sick days, etc. If I don't use them, they carry over.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
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  18. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know if you are purposefully stretching what I meant, or if you simply didn't understand. Of course what you say is true, but my point is that if a person can't afford to have a child without taxpayer help, they are morally wrong to place that burden on other people.

    It is the height of greed and entitlement and irresponsibility. "I'll do what I want, and I don't care if it places a burden on others." The progressives often talk about the greed of the wealthy, but overlook that they themselves are the greediest people that exist. Taking from earners to fund the lives of the takers with the takers giving nothing in return is pure greed. And we will end up with a country filled to the brim with takers.

    There is no need to subsidize the reproductive desires of anyone. And there is no need to bring in aliens from alien cultures. If the population steadies out, so what? There is too much pollution and global warming already. Come on, save the planet already.

    The future is the issue.

    When the nanny state ends up killing the need for self reliance and self responsibility, and when it is so comfortable being a taker, then very few are going to be earners. They will all sit on their azz all day and do nothing productive except walk to the mailbox to get the government check. These taxpayer funded hand-outs have to be cut to the bare minimum, not exponentially increased as many on the left desire. It's always "more free stuff!" I simply can't believe that so many people have absolutely no belief in themselves and their abilities, and they have no pride. It is disgusting. They are like 4-year-olds in adult bodies. Throwing temper tantrums and holding their breath until the taxpayer gives in and funds their self-imposed worthless lives.

    There is no "fact" that family leave is necessary. It isn't necessary. Now, of course it is "desirable" for those who will get free money from the employer or taxpayer. Those greedy, bas... er... people... simply want free stuff.

    It is still possible for two parent-one earner families to raise children. We should step back in time to when people lived within their means. People today expect to have everything but don't want to put in the effort required. They live for the short term and give no thought to the long term. They absolutely don't want to make the sacrifices today so they will have a good future ten years down the road. No, instead they think that the taxpayer should fund their every desire and need.

    If the future is bleak, it is because of irresponsibility and the demise of self-reliance.
     
  19. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Few can afford to educate their children without tax payer help. Are they morally wrong to place that burden on others? I say no, we all benefit from educating children.

    They give a great deal in return: the next generation which will sustain our society.

    US fertility has dipped below replacement level. Without immigration the population will shrink and become older. Children will supply the elderly, even those who never had children, with the goods and services they can no longer supply for themselves. I prefer native born children than immigrants.

    I don't think parents sit on their azz all day waiting for government checks or lead self-imposed worthless lives. Parenting is hard work. It is better to have a little perspective and consider actual facts than rely on generalizations.

    I disagree. People are not having children because the burden is too great. Real wages have been stagnant for quite a while and purchasing power has declined. (This is partly due to encouraging women into the work force to increase the labor supply.)

    (Not to mention that if people lived within their means, it would crash the economy. But that is a different discussion.)

    It is all well and good for you to moralize about self-reliance, et. al., but if the society disappears despite your moralizing, what was the point? It is no good to be so high minded if your principles do not work out in practice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  20. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We dictate the 'minimum'. Nobody ever has to stop there if the company doesn't want to. I get 6 sick days and 5 flex days, on top of my 3 weeks vacation, working at a commercial real estate company.

    My wife works part time at walmart and gets only teh minimum of 4 days sick leave, and vacation doesn't kick in until your 1 year anniversary. If we didn't have the mandatory minimum, she wouldn't even get that. That's why we have protections.
     
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  21. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, the odds are that most of them will feel even more entitled to free stuff than their parents did.

    Facts: I, and millions of others, raised our children with no paid maternity leave, whether employer or taxpayer funded. But you expect us to pay for others' maternity leave? That is blatantly wrong. Why force me to pay for a benefit that I did not receive? I made many sacrifices to raise my children, but now we are going to tell people "oh, don't worry about personal responsibility, go ahead and have all the kids you want, you won't have to sacrifice anything. roorooroo will pay for it!

    Trust me, society will continue without paid maternity leave. The problem is that people have become so entitled that they believe they should never have to make any sacrifices whatsoever. Too many people, including yourself, believe that the government exists to take money from the producers, and give it to the takers. You talked about the demise of society... well, when there are more in society who believe they deserve a free ride than there are producers, that's when society will fail. From each, according to ability, to each, according to need?
     
  22. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

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    A business should be able to decide how much time off, maternity leave or whatever other benefit they want to offer. Govt needs to stay out. Free market. Let business fight over the best talent.
     
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  23. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    100% agree!
     
  24. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    I don't trust you. I think you have a narrow ideology which limits your perceptions and your imagination. You didn't receive paid maternity leave, but you almost certainly received deductions on your income taxes and free public education for your children. But you get all bent out of shape over a rather modest additional benefit because you didn't receive it. Times have changed and women go to work. The benefits of direct maternal care are large. I would rather they stay home rather than work, but that is not likely to happen, so I approve of maternity leave.

    I do worry about a shrinking population and the negative effects that will have on society. I support pronatalist policies over increased immigration, and those are the only alternatives I can think of.
     
  25. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The free public education that my child received was not free. I have paid taxes to the local ISD for over 40 years now.

    You may feel I have a narrow ideology, but what does that even mean? Is a broad ideology necessarily better than a narrow ideology? Apparently, a narrow ideology means self reliance and a broad ideology means dependence?

    Does a broad ideology include paying women to have babies? If so, a broad ideology is ridiculous.
     

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