Part 24 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 2, 2014.

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  1. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Where? Read the story.... or read about Bar Abbas.

    NOBODY has defended Bar Abbas... another lie from you.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabbas
     
  2. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong. Mark tells us that Pilate interviewed Jesus in the Palace (identifying the Praetorium). Outside was Pilates Judgement hall. This was where the Chief Priests etc would not enter because of the Passover. So Pilate went out to them, where they and the crowd were gathered. Jesus was privately interviewed by Pilate in the Palace, Went out through the Judgement hall to the people outside.

    As I said earlier all the reported events surrounding the arrest, judgement and crucifixion are very confused.
     
  3. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    "Pride goeth before a fall", Margot.

    Just imagine if WR had said "Okay, I was wrong about the 'rapist' thing" WEEKS ago. We all would have moved and he wouldn't have spun the web he had to, to keep his fragile ego intact.

    Now...it's too late.

    But let's not forget MittRyan...his "ally"....who remained "politely silent"...and thus showed hypocrisy himself.
     
  4. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    I always wondered about that too.

    Pilate interviews Jesus privately.....so how did the Apostles know what he said???
     
  5. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Has anyone ever considered that Barabbas is a much maligned character. What do we actually know about him. Very little. And it's all very confused. Matthew tells us he was 'a notable prisoner'. Mark that he was an insurrectionist. Luke that he was an insurrectionist. John alone calls him a robber.
    Peter, who didn't write a gospel, called him a murderer. The later Gospel of Peter is pseudographical.

    Personally I don't think this exchange ever happened, but let's say it did.

    Here was a man that was in prison for opposing the Romans, by force is the implication. Nothing unusual for the time. To many Jews he would be a hero, secretly admired. They wanted freedom from Rome. We don't know he harmed his own people.

    Barabbas reputation is tainted by the fact that he was substituted for Jesus in being freed. It wasn't his fault. He didn't ask to be freed, but he sure wasn't going to say no. Would you. Christianity has given him a bad reputation. If your country were overrun would you not admire those who fought for freedom for their country.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am surprised that you would call the flood story and the account given in the Bible of the events that followed "fictions and myths".

    Genesis does not talk much about any Gods or Goddesses existing after the flood. Which ones are you referring to ?
     
  7. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    Post 727: Wanren: When Pontius Pilate presented to the crowd two men Jesus Christ a Holy man and Barabas a criminal, rapist, murderer to chose whom they want him to set free the crowd chose Barabas to be set free and chose Jesus Christ to be crucified. The question now is which crowd to you belong to the crowd for Barabas or for Jesus Christ?

    You lied that I said it was according to the Bible.
    You refused that you lied and continue to distort my post.
    You quote my quotes that clearly show that I never said "according to the Bible" and yet you continue to insist that it is according to the Bible.
    Your credibility on the facts and historicity of Christianity and the Bible is no doubt a none presence.
     
  8. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    So you were just MAKING UP crap about Barabbas....that wasn't according to the Bible?

    You're admitting that now, huh??? :)
     
  9. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    One thing I notice how anti Christ people like to use the word lie,lie and more lie.
    Some people are now using Barabbas as an excuse to foment anti Semitism :( When clearly it was not about Jews or anti Semitism it was about Pilate's attempt to protect Rome from any form of liability for the death of an innocent man that is why Pilate did everything legal to make sure that Rome will not be liable. Presenting Barabbas and putting the inscription on Jesus cross "King of the Jews" are a means that Pilate did to protect himself and Rome from any liabilities.

    If nobody is defending Barabbas criminality then what is the problem?
     
  10. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NO. He hasn't lied. It's because you don't understand English that's the problem. I pointed this out to you earlier.

    If you believe Jesus to be a Holy man because of the Bible therefore you must believe what it says about Barabbas. You have associated the 2. You can't have it both ways. But the Bible does not mention rape.

    Go and learn English.
     
  11. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Yes, Pilate took Jesus inside the palace and after he and Jesus came out Pilate announce to the Pharisees and their supporters that he found no fault in Jesus a clear evidence that Pilate believe Jesus is innocent and that he tried everything in his power to save Jesus.

    How did the conversation between Pilate and Jesus reached the Apostles? Pilate's wife was a sympathizer plus some of the servants or slaves are strong possibility how the conversation reached the Apostles.

    There is nothing confusing the arrest was in public, the judgement was made in public, the crucifixion was in public.
     
  12. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Another load of tripe. If only you would study something more than the Bible. Something that help you to understand the background and reality of the time.
    Rome would not have cared less if it had got the blame. ROME WAS THE POWER IN COMMAND. At this point in time nothing would shake its empire, let alone a miserable trial in a troublesome part of its realm.
     
  13. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    So are you admitting you are making up what I have not posted?

    Quote Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
    Post 727: Wanren: When Pontius Pilate presented to the crowd two men Jesus Christ a Holy man and Barabas a criminal, rapist, murderer to chose whom they want him to set free the crowd chose Barabas to be set free and chose Jesus Christ to be crucified. The question now is which crowd to you belong to the crowd for Barabas or for Jesus Christ?
     
  14. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Education is the issue that is why there are people who can not accept the historicity of the Bible and Christianity no matter what.
     
  15. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    You JUST admitted that Barabbas being a rapist is NOT "according to the Bible"....

    so you just admitted that you were MAKING UP STUFF that is NOT "according to the Bible".

    You LIED about the Bible, WanRen. How do you square that with God???

    - - - Updated - - -

    He doesn't even study the Bible, trevor. If he believes something, he just makes it up and pretends like it's in the Bible when it's not.

    Then when busted, claims he never did that.
     
  16. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    None of these would be present. Nor does it say so.

    There is plenty of confusion but you won't study, or admit it.

    You've already admitted that the arrest was at night to avoid the people. So not in public. The judgement was not in public. There was no judgement. Pilate simply handed over Jesus. Neither was the crucifixion a 'public' affair. If you knew Jewish ritual most people would be at home preparing for the Passover. That's disposed of that.

    What were Pilate and Herod doing in Jerusalem?

    Herod had no authority in Jerusalem.
    Caesarea Maritima was the administrative capital of Judeah, not Jerusalem, so why was Pilate there?

    Herod was a Jew and it was Passover. Though it was probably only lip service he paid to his 'faith'.
    Pilate would have had a circuit of places that he visited at periods to do his Roman 'business'. Rather like Samuel in the Tanakh. With Passover, Jews from all over the known world would be converging on Jerusalem. No better time to visit.

    Study helps to understand reality.
     
  17. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    What were Pilate and Herod doing in Jerusalem?

    Herod had no authority in Jerusalem.

    Caesarea Maritima was the administrative capital of Judeah, not Jerusalem, so why was Pilate there?


    I have often wondered about that... It doesn't make much sense.
     
  18. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Someone noted, on another thread, that perhaps the reason for 100s of years the Catholic Church refused to translate the Bible into native languages or widely distribute it to the masses was......

    because of all the contradictions in it.

    A "priestly class" could be trained, in small numbers, to find rationalizations and accept contradictions and dismiss them...without dismissing the entire belief structure.

    But if every day, ordinary people started reading the Bible...they'd see the contradictions....refuse to overlook them....and start asking questions the priests (and ministers, pastors, etc) had no answers for.

    Thus, as is so often demonstrated on MR's threads, how quickly it would collapse into "We don't know" or "It only LOOKS like a contradiction because of your sinful eyes" or "A=B and B=C, but A does not equal C because that's the way God wants it."
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Why would the Jews of the time deny crucifixion? People were being crucified right before their eyes. They may not have believed in resurrections yet the Bible says that some did and some didn't. The interesting thing is that the characters in the Babylonian Talmud clearly admit that Jesus existed yet they go through great pains to repute every detail attributed to him. That's like saying that Tarzan existed but he's the main character in the Star Wars movies.
     
  20. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The writer intended the story about Satan tempting Jesus as a contrast to the story about Abraham who was more than willing to sacrifice Issac for his own personal fame and fortune. Abraham was willing to sell his soul to get what he wanted. When Jesus was offered the same opportunity he flatly rejected it. Of course he is supposed to be the son of God and was in on the creation of everything so how could he be tempted in such a fashion? But if he was just a man the temptation would have been appealing to him.

    The two cases also demonstrate one of the main ideas of the Bible in a practical application. That idea is found in Genesis 3:22https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 3:11&version=NIV;CEB;CEV;NKJV;MSG. Since man ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and knows the difference between good and evil just like God does, Abraham willingly choose to do evil when he set out to sacrifice Isaac for his own gain. Jesus knew that it would be evil to accept Satan's offer and he rejected it.
     
  21. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    My position is that everyone continues to miss the point about Barabbas. He was included in the story for the simple reason that it shows that Jesus came to sacrifice himself to save the sinners. The inclusion of such a character as Barabbas in the story is essential to illustrate that point. It simply doesn't matter what crimes Barabbas might have done or even if he existed. The writer needed the character to show Jesus' sacrifice and he tossed him as soon as he did. You will also notice that Barabbas was a Jew and not a Gentile. That verifies Jesus' statement that he was only sent to the Jews. The Barabbas character would have been a Gentile if Jesus had been sent to everyone.
     
  22. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That's hilarious. Thanks for the daily joke.
     
  23. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry. I may have phrased that badly. The Jews 'believed' in crucifixion because they saw it happening.Their religious beliefs said that it should not be used. They said it was torture. Jesus should have been stoned. But you notice that when Jesus was handed over to the Jews, the Romans soldiers were still in charge. That meant that punishment would be crucifixion according to Roman Law.

    .

    I don't quite understand your quote. Did you mean 'to refute every detail'.

    If you did then surely it's obvious. Christianity was anathema to them. They did not believe Jesus was Gods son or their Messiah but accepted a teacher named Jesus. Think about it. If Jesus was not, in their way of thinking, what Christianity taught then he would not have the powers etc ascribed to him. So they would refute it.

    Some parts of the Gospels are questionable to people today.

    Why, or did, Joseph and Mary actually travel to Bethlehem? Was Jesus actually born in Nazareth? There was no need for them to go to Bethlehem. Romans taxed on property and all their property would be in Nazareth. If they had property in Bethlehem they would not have needed somewhere to sleep. They could have simply bedded down with any tenants they had.
     
  24. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Repute = typo.

    When you consider the OT fairy tale regarding Judea and Samaria a case can be made that Joseph represents Judea (the Jews) and Mary (the virgin) represents Samaria. The Jesus character therefore becomes the first Samaritan prophet (the virgin's offspring) sent to the Jews. It also supports Jesus claim that he had been spent just to the Jews. On top of that it explains why Joseph (the Jews) wasn't the real father but was willing to accept the Samaritan prophet. The OT contains a story about the unification of the Jews and the Samaritans and it's realized in the Jesus character.

    The census story was merely a literary device to get the Samaritan prophet into Judea among the Jews. The story isn't meant to be actual history because it's really a story about the unification of the Jews and the Samaritans as a way to fulfill OT prophecy.
     
  25. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    If you would stop posting lies, then no one would even bring the topic up. And when you get caught, don't twist and distort and try to make it seem like someone else posted a lie.
    But a wolf will continue to post lies, as that is what the wolf is to do. Make christians look like complete imbeciles is what one can do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    He understands perfectly It's all a game. In over 2 yrs of posting, there hasn't been one syllable improvement. That means it is done on purpose. With intent.
     
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