Part 3 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Feb 12, 2013.

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  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    We grew from 8 people to billions and billions of people in 4500 or so yrs. I guess we've figured out how to NOT extinguish each other. Not entirely, but certainly enough to populate.
     
  3. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    How predictable, that your only comment is falsehood and misrepresentation.

    Did you do that on purpose?

    - - - Updated - - -

     
  4. violadude

    violadude New Member

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    If everything God does is perfectly moral because he is inherently moral, why is it that it apparently would go against God's perfect justice to just let everyone into heaven? Wouldn't anything God does be inherently just as well? Why is morality an inherent quality of God's actions, but justice is a concept apart from God that he needs to follow?

    - - - Updated - - -

    If evil is necessarily a bi-product of free will, and heaven will be eternally devoid of evil, does that mean we lose our free will in heaven? And if yes, what was the point of God giving it to us in the first place?
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by Woody:

    For 2000 years jesus followers have been waiting on his return and still waiting. It's not our fault you have not figured out you have been duped.......Oh and just for the record I know about the old no man knows the time or day junk thats a nice little escape clause they wrote there.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When the whole world is in total chaos, everything is going wrong on a world-wide scale He shall return.

    We are nearing that point in this day and age that we live in. The world markets right now are still in shambles, the world economic system crashing due to debt and greed, we see this debt right now in the U.S. and European countries, there is so much violence, disrespect, drug use, sexual perversion, how much longer will God put up with it before judging us.

    The murder of the innocent, abortion, how long will God put up with it before judging us. Diseases that plague mankind like aids, antibiotic resistant or man made genetic disease become a world pandemic and is killing hundreds of millions on earth.

    Countries like Russia and China beefing up their military might, with the threat of all out nuclear war looming.

    Yes, He shall return when the whole world is in total chaos, and it seems like we are in the early stages of this total chaos becomming a reality.

    And when our Lord returns and reigns over the entire world, He will clean up the mess that we corruptible, sinful humans made.
     
  6. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    Well then he's a LITTLE late I would say. The world has gone to HELL in hand basket and NO frigging JESUS!

    Typical conspiracy theory. Do you honestly think that an all out nuclear war is looming? Guess who wins in a scenario such as that? Not a damn soul! We all lose. So how quick do you think the Russians or the Chinese are for that matter to launch a nuclear strike? China is all over North Korea's ass now about it. An all out nuclear war is a no WIN situation!!!!!!!!!!!

    Playing the pity party card now. If this god of yours existed there would be no need to put up with it. Disease is a FACT of life live with it.

    Well if this concocted god man owes you any favors you better get on the horn NOW! He could not clean up the mess he supposedly started 2000 years and lied in the process about returning.....yeah he will return alright when:

    990818-061.jpg
     
  7. WhatNow!?

    WhatNow!? New Member

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    Oh, excUUUUse me...don't believers say that god created everything? Yes , they do. god created humans, he did a lousy job...they're not perfect and NONE, NONE, of them asked to be put here...so now this Magic Guy wants to punish everyone, even innocent good people....he sounds like some evil bum...can't he accept responsibility for his own actions....he blames us?
     
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No, He is not late, for we are only in the early stages like I mentioned. When it gets real bad and I mean real bad, He will be arriving, and that's for sure buddy!
     
  9. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    Yeah right...when PIGS Fly.....
     
  10. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Was todays meteorite impact an act from gods hand or not?
     
  11. WhatNow!?

    WhatNow!? New Member

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    When it gets real bad for WHO ? 20% of the population? 56% , 75%...


    Got news for ya, it HAS BEEN really really bad for lots of people already!

    When is it reallyreally bad? When it is bad for YOU?
     
  12. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    Nope...rogue meteorite found it's way to earth...not the first one to impact earth and will not be the last......Planet X will be next.....ROFL...............BOOM!
     
  13. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well Im wondering if an extinction level impact happens and it was not Gods intention, then what does he do? create another earth? or just go well it was good while it lasted. Does he stop the asteroid? He didnt do that during the Dinosaur extinction level event. So Im asking another tough question. By the way weeks and counting and the OP still doesnt answer any questions.
     
  14. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    He seems to avoid those questions that require thought and rationalization processes.
     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by Gorn Captain:

    Really, so what happened to all the people who died before Jesus was born who just happened to never hear the Gospels?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    According to Scripture anyone who lived prior to our Lord Savior Jesus Christ has been pardoned by God for their sins and were not condemned to hell, so of course this would mean all the people who lived from the time of Adam and throughout all the Old Testament times. Below is the Scripture that verifies what I've just said.

    "For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet, God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when He freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed His life, shedding His blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when He held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for He was looking ahead and including them in what He would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate His righteousness, for He himself is fair and just, and He declares sinners to be right in His sight when they believe in Jesus. ---Romans 3:23-26 NLT
     
  16. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by Akhlut:

    Again, still no worthwhile theodicy shown. Your proposition is literally nearly identical to the concept of a racket; payment in exchange for protection. That's a gangster deity, not a loving deity. If YHWH were real (almost certainly not, but just for argument's sake), then in order for YHWH to be just, it would have to follow the tenets of universalism.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What payment in exchange for protection? You are confused. Your opinions are confused. All humans are sinners thus we are all deserving of punishment.

    However because God loves all of us, He does not want anyone to suffer this punishment, He provided a way in which we sinners can be cleansed from our sins. He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ to pay for the sins of mankind on the cross in that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life in heaven.

    Sadly there will always be people such as yourself rejecting this merciful grace, this salvation, that God has offered all of us. So the day you find yourself being punished, that's the day you're going to wish you hadn't made such a foolish choice, for it will be too late to repent and ask God for forgiveness.

    Your disbelief and not loving God, your rejection of the sin debt payment Jesus Christ made for you, your not wanting eternal life in paradise, your sinful past not cleansed, all puts you where you belong...in hell. Where else is there left for you to spend your eternity if you refuse heaven (paradise)?
     
  17. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    why is there any punishment at all? Why did Jesus have to pay for our sins? What would have been the outcome if jesus didnt pay for our sins, would god punish us again? Why doesnt he just let us live our lives in peace without punishing everyone at the drop of a hat and threatening eternal damnation? Why does he feel the need to punish us at all? That in itself seems evil to me.
     
  18. Akhlut

    Akhlut Active Member

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    Obeisance in exchange for protection from hell.

    Then YHWH is incompetent if it cannot fashion an entity that is incapable of being perfect.

    Then why isn't YHWH a universalist?

    Then why isn't YHWH a universalist?

    Why can't it just do that with a snap of its proverbial fingers for all humans for all eternity, regardless of circumstance without going through all the hullabaloo of Jesus and the extremely flawed books spawned by his followers in the 2-4th centuries? After all, the NT contains well-known forgeries (2 Timothy, for instance).

    Why is belief required? If YHWH loved us, he wouldn't tack on a requirement.

    All I demand is proof and logical consistency. YHWH apparently deigns not to provide any worthwhile evidence nor to follow any logical program for salvation, nor even basic mercy.

    See? Protection racket. If you don't pay Al Capone on time, then he's going to set your store on fire and break your kneecaps. If you don't pay YHWH on time, it'll throw you in a lake of fire for eternity.

    Can't love something that's not there.

    Why doesn't Jesus show up right before me right now as a physical entity for me to examine the nail and spear wounds so I can make an informed choice regarding all this sin business? Is Jesus unwilling? Unable? Then why worship him?

    Limbo. Of course, if YHWH is such a tyrant, why would I want to spend eternity singing his praises? After all, according to most Christian myth, his most perfect creation didn't see fit to worship YHWH.

    Of course, that supposes that the Jews didn't just get all of their angel/demon ideas and their ideas on the messiah, paradise, and so forth from the Zoroastrians. Unfortunately for Christianity, it appears that all the theological justifications for Christianity from Judaism were, in fact, originally from Zoroastrianism, not Judaism. And, unfortunately again for Christianity, Zoroastrianism's eschatology is far more internally consistent, as Ahura Mazda doesn't judge on belief/disbelief, but on good deeds (Ahura Mazda, for instance, would likely judge Gandhi as being good due to his work for social justice and equality while finding his various, minor personal failings and frailties as being far less weighty than the good works performed).
     
  19. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    This is the key. A Jew cannot die for the sins of others.

    Same as it is now. Nothing.
     
  20. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Woody, thank you for answering my tough questions. I think its rather deceitful to solicit tough questions regarding christianity but then refuse to acknowledge or answer any.
     
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Kinda makes one wonder why he ordered the slaughter of canaanites, and all the other ites of the time if he was just going to bring them to heaven anyways.
    And why he flooded the whole world if he was just gonna take them home anyways.
     
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    You have it wrong. That is love, not punishment.
     
  23. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL putting me in hell for eternity simply for not worshipping is love? Thats a perverted and false love. If you have to force someone to love you then your not worthy of that love in the first place. A true loving god would love all regardless of their ideology even the people who deny him. Especially if the God was the one who made skepticism part of the human mind in the first place.
    Thats called a fear tactic. Invented by a man to control another man. As you can see in this forum some people still try to use that fear tactic. The only people on this forum going to hell are the ones who try to use fear to force others to submit to their ideology.
    A true god would see that as the sin not the other way around.
     
  24. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    So you refuse to admit that the Crusade was the result of Muslim aggression, you really don't have two legs to stand on this issue and it reflects on your educational background.
    The Templars were to become the backbone, the motivator and the official Holy Warriors of the Catholic church. The First Crusade were led by secular leaders and soldiers that in them were the spirit of the Templars. The Templar Knights will become synonymous or interchangeable with the Crusades. Did I thought the First Crusade was started by the Templars? No, I did not.

    The Catholic church teaches science, medicine, philosophy, mathematics, and history as well. The Catholic church was the centre of learning in fact it would be the monks who would teach kings, lords and the general public how to read and write.

    Please re quote.


    Quote please.....if not it is according to your words.

    Mary Magdalene was the first to reach the tomb, here are the Gospel from Mark, Matthew, John and Luke.
    Mark:
    1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salo'me, bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.
    2 And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen.
    3 And they were saying to one another, "Who will roll away the stone for us from the door of the tomb?"
    4 And looking up, they saw that the stone was rolled back; -- it was very large.
    5 And entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, dressed in a white robe; and they were amazed.
    6 And he said to them, "Do not be amazed; you seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen, he is not here; see the place where they laid him.
    7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as he told you."
    8 And they went out and fled from the tomb; for trembling and astonishment had come upon them; and they said nothing to any one, for they were afraid.
    9 Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.
    10 She went and told those who had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
    11 But when they heard that he was alive and had been seen by her, they would not believe it.
    12 After this he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country.
    13 And they went back and told the rest, but they did not believe them.


    Matthew: 27: 62 The next day, the one after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees went to Pilate.
    63 “Sir,” they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’
    64 So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first.”
    65 “Take a guard,” Pilate answered. “Go, make the tomb as secure as you know how.”
    66 So they went and made the tomb secure by putting a seal on the stone and posting the guard.
    Matthew 28:1-12
    28 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
    2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
    3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
    4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
    5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.
    6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.
    7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”
    8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
    9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
    10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”


    All the authors agree that Jesus Christ resurrected, that is was Mary Magdalene whom Jesus spoke to inform the Apostles. After that each author will continue to on to mention who else were there and what happen subsequently.

    Please continue by all means.
     
  25. Abu Sina

    Abu Sina New Member

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    If Jesus is believed to be God then who looked after the world between Friday afternoon and Sunday when he was supposed to have risen from the dead?
    If he was dead and he was God then who rose him from the dead if God was dead?
     
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