Part 36 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Feb 7, 2017.

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  1. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    I know, but Pilate caved in under the pressure from the snooty priests who wanted Jesus dead, and made a show to the crowd of washing his hands to let the people know it was the priests fault.
    He ordered the "King of the Jews" sign to be fixed to the cross to let people know what Jesus's "crime" was, not necessarily because he believed it.
     
  2. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    "The land of the Gadarenes/Gerasenes" indicates a general area on the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee, not pinpoint cities.

    Sea of Galilee
    [​IMG]
     
  3. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What sort of person was Pilate? It turns out that there are historical records. Pilate was a prototypical colonial bass hole... who ruled more or less like Stalin. In other words, Pilate did not need much excuse to kill someone... and for sure, he spent zero time in anguish about whether such decisions killed an innocent person. And it is ludicrous to imagine that Pilate worried what the priests thought, or what the clamoring mob thought.

    There is a detailed historical record of how ruthlessly rome treated its colonies. In fact, within 100 years the romans decimated Israel...enslaved or killed most of the Jews, and leveled the temple. The romans were not people who acted like the Bible story about Pilate obsequiously bowing to the will of local priests or a mob.
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Firstly, not all Christians believe in the literal truth of the bible. In fact, you might want to examine the various religious doctrines of the major christian sects.
    You won't even find the majority of jews believing in the literal truth of the Torah.

    I doubt that your god wanted his creations to believe in bronze/iron age mythology over facts.

    If he wanted everyone to simply believe in the stories of the bible, then why did he endow us with superior intelligence, creativity, curiosity and all of the other necessary skills and senses to explore our place in the universe in a never ending quest for knowledge and understanding?

    Seems to be contradictory that he would provide all of the tools and then demand you not use them when examining whichever holy scripture your religion offers up to you.
     
  5. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    If you're a 'Civilisation' computer game player as I am, you know that conquering enemy cities means you'll be able to tax their balls off and generate huge tax income for your coffers, so the last thing you want to do is slaughter them, because corpses generate no tax revenue.
    Pilate knew the same thing, and sought peaceful co-existence with people in conquered lands, that's why he went into "diplomat mode" to try to keep the peace.
    Of course, if things got out of hand in rebellious conquered lands, that's when Rome had no choice but to send in the troops to kick ass..:)
     
  6. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Donor

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    But the area of Gadara was on the coast of Galilee. Gerasa was a seperate area. Seperated from Galilee by Gadara.
     
  7. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Donor

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    He ordered the "King of the Jews" sign to be fixed to the cross to let people know what Jesus's "crime" was, not necessarily because he believed it.[/QUOTE]

    According to Roman authority Pilate was responsible for what went on in his Province. Wash his hands as much as he liked, it did not absolve him from any blame. And if you really believe there was a crowd there, you know little about Jewish Passover and the preparation for it. Just a bit of spicing it up again.
     
  8. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Like I said, we shouldn't try to pin it down to a specific town (what would herds of pigs be doing in a town anyway?), but regard it as a general area which includes towns and countryside-

    WIKI- "the "country of the Gergesenes/Gadarenes/Gerasenes" in the New Testament Gospels refers to some location on the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gergesa
     
  9. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are so many claimed- where does one start?

    It was interesting that Johnny Brady quoted ' "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." (Micah 5:2)

    As I showed later that this isn't necessarily talking about a city, but a family.

    Prophecies have been taken out of context to make them work. I became an agnostic because I could see what had happened and how Christianity depended on these 'prophecies'.
     
  10. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hope you will understand that I do not consider you computer gaming experience as authoritative

    Killing rabble rousers sent a message concerning the alternative to being a compliant tax payer

    There are different strategies to keep the peace. Pilate was basically a Stalinist. he ruled by intimidation. The crucial component of that approach is to let everyone know that insubordination will not be tolerated. The most likely scenario was that jesus was considered an insignificant common seditionist and was executed with very little due process
     
  11. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Nevertheless he would have had to suppress his violent tendencies on the orders of his masters in Rome who wanted taxes not corpses.
    Likewise in 'Ice Station Zebra', Russian Col. Ostrovsky parachutes in with his men and tells Rock Hudson-
    "Although my personal nature is a violent one, I am under strict instructions to avoid bloodshed if at all possible.."

    [​IMG]

    PS- HEY HOLLYWOOD, ISZ is 49 years old now, so surely it's overdue for a modern remake?..:)
     
  12. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Please yourself. I prefer Matthews version which takes place in the country of the Gergesenes, believed to be farther up the coast. This fits the bill rather than the other two. Jesus had just sailed from Capernaum, and Hippos, in the area, had a 'port' facility under its control. It was also a Greek area and swine would be in the area. There were also coastal 'mountains' in confirmation of the story.
     
  13. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are joking. It was because he could not control his violent tendencies that he was called to Rome to account for his actions by trial. No-one knows what happened to him.
     
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was raised Christian x 3. Started questioning things at a very early age and noticed contradictions. The further I dug, the more questions and contradictions arose. After many years I managed to finally dig myself out of belief in modern Christian dogma and also the notion that the Bible is the necessarily the "Word of God".
     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    I want you all to know that I'm not ignoring questions, it's just that I'm so far behind, I'm almost done answering questions on Part 9 and soon I will begin answering questions on Part 10.

    But because you are so insistent on getting a response asking me the question for the 3rd time on this thread I will respond to your question.
    Your question is invalid, it is vague (a few centuries?) and so it can't be answered. The Bible doesn't give us any details on what the population was after a few centuries (whatever that might be) of the Great Flood of Noah. We don't even know exactly what year the Great Flood occurred in let alone what the population was a 100, 200, 300, etc. years later after the flood.

    One thing people must understand is that the Bible is really not concerned with dates and with keeping a census of the population throughout Biblical times, it is mostly concerned with the messages it conveys over to the readers. Essentially it is God speaking to us through the Holy Bible.

    Below is from the publishers of the NLT Bible:

    God's Message for Today

    In 2 Timothy 3:16-17, the apostle Paul reminded his student, Timothy, that "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every work."

    This is still true today, even though the Bible was written hundreds of years ago. Its message is timeless, personal, and powerful because it comes from God. Millions have discovered that the Bible speaks to their deepest needs, and people from all over the world turn to God's word daily for words of comfort, encouragement, hope, inspiration, and guidance. There they find satisfying answers to life's most perplexing questions and difficult problems.

    The Bible, however, is more than just an answer book for life's problems. It is also made up of exciting adventures, inspiring stories, beautiful poetry, convicting messages, and the hope-giving life story of Jesus Christ.
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Tower of Babel story comes 130 years after the global flood.

    Nimrod in the Bible was the great-grandson of Noah through the line of Cush (Genesis 10:8).
     
  17. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    So what? Jesus didn't stick in one place, he got around..:)
     
  18. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    Think politics mate..:)
    As I mentioned before, Rome wanted to rule a peaceful tax-paying empire, so if Pilate treated rebels harshly and their governments complained, he was sacked and replaced to defuse the situation, just as Patton and MacArthur were replaced after WW2 and Korea to appease the Russkis.
    The fact remains, Pilate found Jesus "not guilty" at his trial, so he was probably a softy at heart..:)
     
  19. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you're still in CIV V.
     
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Mitt, please explain:

    Rev 2:26-28 - "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, . . . I will give him the morning star."

    Please explain "morning star".
     
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Mitt, one more....

    Luke 17:20-21
    Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; "nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

    Please explain the last 7 words.

    Thanks.
     
  22. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Donor

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    This was no rebellion. There was no threat to the Roman Empire. Even the Jews would have had a problem complaining to Rome over what was essentially a religious matter. Neither Herod Antipas or Pilate thought so.

    If he was a 'softy at heart' it didn't help those he disliked - the Jews.

    Philo writes in the 1st century that Pilate had "vindictiveness and furious temper", and was "naturally inflexible, a blend of self-will and relentlessness, corrupt, insolent and murdered hundreds of people without trial, or often, reason.

    Crikey. What would he have been like as a 'hard man'.
     
  23. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Donor

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    But you can hardly send a herd of swine down a mountain slope that doesn't exist.. Especially in Gerasa that had no coastline.
     
  24. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    The first original Civilisation game is still my favourite because later versions became too complex, slow-moving and boring, and even the graphics are krap so I don't touch them...:)
     
  25. Johnny Brady

    Johnny Brady New Member

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    The fact remains Pilate found Jesus "not guilty" and wanted to let him go, how do you (or Philo) explain that?....:)
     
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