Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

That's my opinion - that is, I have a hard time doubting that.

My bet is that a good portion came from oral tradition, handed down over long periods.

This is true for the Koran, which is a far more recent work.

Surely works from thousands of years previous are much more likely to have been carried forward by oral tradition in part or in whole.

My understanding is that Genesis had multiple authors. Who knows how many oral traditions were considered as authors. Fitting them together as if it is one book would have to have been a creative exercise. It's no real surprise that it resulted in the multiple creation stories.

 

I'm not so concerned about the first two. After all, the Bible is full of allegories, just not always identified as such.

The part of the flood story that bothers me more is that the acts of man are said to have changed god's mind about wiping out all mankind. How did THAT happen, given the powers of foresight and omniscience attributed to god.

 

This one was tough for Mitt .. but be warned .. stopped responding he did after this one.

Judges 11

The big burning problem with this passage .. is that there is no excape .. Jephthah ends up sacrificing his daughter to the pleasure of YHWH.

There are other passages where YHWH delightes in Child sacrifice .. but if the adherent is willing to engage in mind twisting denial of the obvious .. "maybe the sun won't come up tomorrow" there is some wiggle room in other passages.

This one however offers no excape .. as it is "The Sprit of the Lord" that wherby Jephthah offers the sacrifice .. God who is running the show .. can't blame poor Jephthah who loses his only daughter out of the whole affair.. and unlike Isaac and in other places .. there is no substitute offered ..

As it turns out .. the Israelites .. as some of the other peoples around them - were eagerly sacrificing their children to the various Gods .. not as a normal practice .. but in times like Jephthah when they needed to win a battle --

King Solomon built "high places' for the Child Sacrifice Gods .. of which YHWH was one. The Israelites were polytheistic throughout their whole history .. at least according to the Bible .. only after Israel was destroyed .. the Northern Kingdom taken by Assyria ~95% of Israel's population .. that Hezekiah puts an end to the worship of God's other than YHWH

 

The talking snake is the very foundational brick of the whole religion. Without that, "Eve" doesn't "fall from grace", taking her hubby with her, they're not expelled from the "Garden of Eden", and I guess none of us would have ever been born, because apparently they knew nothing of sexual attraction, mating, or making babies. Which brings up another question... why would they be embarrassed about their nakedness? Weren't they a couple, albeit a sexless one, before the snake thing?

Maybe that's why xtians have so many sexual hang-ups, preferring the pre-talking-snake lifestyle of A&E.

 

Go back to studies...... when you have shown yourself worthy, I'll answer what you have left.. most of what you ask , you've already googled.

 

Interesting take.

I think a large percent of Christian theologians don't quite look at it that way.

It's more like Adam demonstrates a flaw in humanity. Eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil can be interpreted as seeing himself on a par with God. It is god who has the knowledge of good and evil. He is the judge, not we. Today we see plenty enough pride and self centered behavior today to note that this is indeed a flaw in humans. Adam was given Eden and the tree of life. That just wasn't enough for him.

I think there is a lot more of interest and truth in this more allegorical interpretation.

Of course, one should look at the various theologies.

 

Two quite different interpretations of Genesis .. highly doubt that Christian Theologians in general - lest they changed the course material over last 10 years which may well be true - have much of a clue about Genesis.

The Serpent is a representation of Tiamat -- the primordial one of the sea which spawned - or more likely a God that has usurped some of the characteristics of Tiamat .. Whether this be Enki .. or other of the high Gods -- and it would be a high god .. first generation - this is what the people living in Abraham's time .. thought about the story .. and the Israelites that followed.

Tiamat is the Goddess of Chaos - works against order .. against some of the other high Gods. Enki is the trickster God .. also the God of Wisdom .. knowledge .. not sure he was represented by the Serpent though which is a problem .. other Gods however fit the bill.

Regardless .. the narrative is the same .. this God upset the balance of Karma .. against the will of the God of Genesis .. who definitly is not YHWH .. not even much later .. the Israelites would not have thought the God in the Garden was YHWH .. YHWH's job was destruction not creation .. God of War .. God of Thunder .. God of the Mountain .. and of the forge

In the end of the story we have the God in the Garden .. who is either Anu or Enlil .. best guess would be Enlil .. as this would make sense of the the idea that Enki - Enlil's brother would be the Serpent - these two fighting each other over the humans .. which is a story that "EVERYONE" in the Near East Believed .. was part of their religion .. including the Israelites .. and is still in the bible if one knows where to look and has a translation from a Bible older than the Masoretic Text .. which wiped much of the good stuff out .. unfortunately. The MT is what modern bibles is translated from .. so does not contain some of the good stuff. Such as Deut 32:8 and Deut 32:43 . some of the good stuff horribly bastardized by the MT.

In any case in the end of the story we have the God of the Garden asserting dominance .. over the other .. put to the ground .. is the analogy put forward..

So in Deut 32:8 we are told that Enlil (God of Abraham - one who sent the Flood) dividing up the peoples of the earth ..aloting a portion to each of his sons .. YHWH's portion being Jacob/Israel. .

These sons .. and the sons of Enki .. then duke it out for Supremicy over the Earth .. who gets to be chief on earth .. Usurping the position of Enlil .. who then becomes chief in the heavens .. so still kept and revered and worshiped.

Every town has their own patron God -- and every time the town/ city state goes to war the Gods battle each other for supremacy.
A good portion of the OT is YHWH battling his Arch Rival Baal Hadad ..

Psalm 82 -don't need an old Bible .. just a translation from Hebrew: https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa82.pdf

Here we have El - Enlil - seated at the head of the Divine Council .. the "Children of the Supreme one" are in attendence .. YHWH is addressing the Council ..

"Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the Supreme one - But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes"

and with that YHWH takes dominion over the Earth - defeats the other Gods .. allegory 100% one of the most common religious narratives of the day... everyone knew the story - and attributed to their National God ... if successful in battle. Assyrians, Babylonias, Edomites, Hittites, Various Canaanite peoples -- of which Israel is one .. .. all have the same story .. in one variation or another. the Israelites no different. and the closer you get to the Israelites as in the Canaanites .. the closer the religious beliefs of these folks are to the Israelites .. now that we have these texts and can read them.

So the reason for all this .. is to illustrate that you have to try and understand Genesis from the perspective of how the people of that time would have thought. Its their story.

 

First of all He is everyone's God, yes even to those such as yourself who don't believe in Him, who reject Him as being the Creator, the Almighty God who created the universe and everything in it...all living and non-living matter.

And so there will be a day when unbelievers such as yourself will finally realize that He was indeed your God too, all the time while you were not believing in Him, rejecting Him, living out your earthly life. And unfortunately for unbelievers when that time comes it will be too late to ask Him for His forgiveness of your sins.

Ok now got that out of the way and yes Our Creator Almighty God told us in His Best-Selling Book of All-Time, the Christian Holy Bible about the event commonly known as the Great Flood of Noah which was a punishment for the evils of mankind.

He being Sovereign over His creation had every right to carry out such a punishment. They were so repugnantly evil and wicked, He saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil. So He wiped out the human race that He created from the face of the earth except for Noah and his family of seven others along with pairs of two, male and female of every kind of animal and birds that were spared.

We Read in Scripture:

A World Gone Wrong

6 Then the people began to multiply on the earth, and daughters were born to them. 2 The sons of God saw the beautiful women and took any they wanted as their wives. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.”

4 In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.

5 The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil. 6 So the Lord was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart. 7 And the Lord said, “I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thing—all the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them.” 8 But Noah found favor with the Lord. Genesis 6:1-8 NLT

 

Every religion on Earth now and in the past believes that their religion applies to all humans.

You don't have to tell me that your religion is like that. They ALL are. There isn't anything novel about that.

You certainly can claim that since god made man he has every right to slaughter all mankind. That's obviously ridiculous, but, it's not the issue.

The hard parts have more to do with god changing his mind. How did God not know about Noah? How did God not know about Noah even before mankind existed? How could God be fallabile enough to "change his mind"? Then, god promised not to slaughter humanity again. How could that fit in - was god omniscient or not?

So, god missed Noah. Are you really sure that there was no other human on Earth who wasn't so "wicked" that he should be drowned?

I think you are WAY better off seeing the Noah story as an allegory.

 

No one could unleash the kind of power Our Creator Almighty God possesses furthermore vlad or anyone else for that matter do not have the authority/justification to take human life, what He has ordered his military to do in the sovereign country of Ukraine is criminally repugnantly evil. The evil tyrant has killed/murdered many thousands of people in Ukraine but so far not on the scale that another russian evil tyrant has killed/murdered in the past which were millions of people...and yes, I'm referring to that other evil russian tyrant... joseph but nevertheless killing/murdering anyone whether it being just a single person or in the thousands or millions is still downright evil. So I have no idea what you mean by saying vlad isn't actually that evil, I mean if vlad has no compunction to kill/murder thousands why would he stop there and not kill/murder millions more if given the opportunity being that he's already an evil tyrant. It's rather obvious that vlad loves the darkness more than the light for his actions are indeed evil. vlad's day will come when he will have to answer to Our Creator Almighty God.

We Read In Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.

19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.” John 3:16-21 NLT

 

You took my comment out of context. Of course what Putin is doing in Ukraine demonstrates a serious level of evil. But, you can't compare the evil of wiping out all humans and Putin's evil in his tactics in Ukraine, or Stalin's tactics in Russia.

Those don't compare to drowning all humans, which was God's intent.

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The more important issue in the Noah story is that God was unaware of Noah, until someone pointed him out.

That is the more serious aspect.

Is God omniscient? Or, NOT?

Again, I think you are better off considering the Noah story to be an allegory.

 

I don't have any questions, not that I trust anyone who thinks he has answers. I do have a problem, though:

God forgives the adult sinner, no matter how grave the sin, right? Like Hitler level sin, even, if Hitler asks for it. Why? Because he loves us, and we are all sinners. So .... Hitler? Sure. Come on down and be saved. You're as precious in God's eyes as any saint who ever lived.

Here's the problem with this boundless love business:. Child abuse and birth defects. How about abuse of a child with birth defects? It is happening every second and has been for 5000 years.

"God, please help me, Im only 5. PLEASE!!!"

"No."

God has time and patience and infinite mercy for the sinner, even Hitler, but not for the abused and deformed children of the world.

I can't get past that, and I've been trying for 60 years, nearly every day. So, no bromides, please. And think about it before you offer bromides to anyone else.

 

Heard of Satan? Even in heavens there is a legal system. You expect hypocrisy from God?

 

What aspect of that could possibly be described as a "legal system"?

 

I asked this one a while back and it never got a direct answer. I believe it is a hard question for any religion with a holy text claimed to be the word or inspired word or the message of a God, which would include most types of Christianity.

Do you agree than an all powerful God is capable of making everyone know and agree on who he is and what he wants? If not, how can you say he is all powerful?

If so, then why wouldn't he do so? There are many different religions, and sects within them, with people honestly searching and believing with all their hears that they understand and are faithful to God. This often results in conflict and even violence. Does God intend this? Is the answer related to the Tower of Babel bible story?

And why would an all powerful God, capable of simply making people know whatever he wants them to know with zero effort on his part, do something like write a book or speak through a human prophet? These are means of communication that humans may be limited to, but an all powerful God shouldn't be. So these are unnecessary means of communication that could be faked by humans to spread claims of false Gods. Does God want to be doubted? Does he not want everyone to believe these are really his word?

If God had everyone know and understand and believe the same message, then he really could judge people based on how they then act. Until then, not really so. Until then, it is first a test of what people are inclined to believe based on little evidence, and they are inclined to believe a wide variety of competing things as noted above. A muslim thinks he is being faithful and following God with all his heart just as much as a Christian does, and vice versa. An honest atheist simply doesn't believe either is so.

And that also brings up the question of if a non-believer in a particular religion is capable of blasphemy against that God. Is a Hindu capable of blasphemy against Allah? Is an atheist capable of blaspheming against Jesus? Is a Christian capable of blaspheming against Zeus? Can you speak against or rebel against a God that doesn't exist as far as you know?

 

Snakes have never talked. We have to remember that while animals are not capable of speaking, there are powerful beings out there (God, the angels, satan, the demons) who are capable of the impossible, including enabling animals to speak.

Most scholars hold that it was satan (devil) in the Garden of Eden who was speaking through the snake, not the snake itself speaking on its own. Thus, the Genesis 3 account it is not suggesting that snakes were of an intellect that would have enabled them to speak coherently.

The Great Flood of Noah destroyed the whole world so of course that would have included Egypt as well.

We Read in Scripture:

17 “Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die. 18 But I will confirm my covenant with you. So enter the boat—you and your wife and your sons and their wives. 19 Bring a pair of every kind of animal—a male and a female—into the boat with you to keep them alive during the flood. 20 Pairs of every kind of bird, and every kind of animal, and every kind of small animal that scurries along the ground, will come to you to be kept alive. 21 And be sure to take on board enough food for your family and for all the animals.”

22 So Noah did everything exactly as God had commanded him. Genesis 6:17-22 NLT

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ sacrificed His life so that He could give everlasting life to those who believe in Him is the quick short answer.

But of course for people like you I need to furnish you with the long answer being that obviously you're not understanding this sacrifice and so let me explain more in depth and thoroughly and maybe perhaps you will start to begin to understand, I mean it would be wise of you if you did, your eternal destiny is at stake.

Knowing man’s incapability to maintain perfection by means of the law that was set up in the old covenant, God’s compassion and great love for mankind allowed for a new covenant. This would be an everlasting covenant to be established through the sending of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus became the true Lamb of God that took away the sins of the world and bring peace and restoration to a broken relationship between God and His people once and for all.

This covenant is from everlasting to everlasting and has eternal significance to the soul of man. Our souls were destined for eternal punishment because of our inability to be righteous and tendency to given in to temptations.

We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who you are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when He freed us from the penalty of our sins.

For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed His life, shedding His blood.

We Read in Scripture:

Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.” John 3:16-21 NLT

 

Ok. So why are snakes punished? Somebody posed as a snake so snakes were no longer allowed to have legs?

And that's somehow not at all by his design?

That raises so many unanswered questions.

Why does God need blood and suffering in order to forgive sin? Why not good action nor simply forgiving out of his mercy alone?

Why does God accept somebody else's suffering and death in order to forgive your sin (vicarious redemption)?

Why is Jesus's death a sacrifice if he then rises again shortly afterwards? What was sacrificed? This was the question you were asked above and didn't answer directly.

 

Well I like to think that my world is centered around Our Creator Almighty God, family, country, political affiliation. First and foremost my world is first rooted and bounded by my unwavering belief/faith in Our Creator the Christian Almighty God. I believe and follow all the teachings of the Holy Bible because all Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work.

Then next is my immediate family, followed by my country the great United States of America that I have allegiance/loyalty to, then lastly is my independent political views. I vote for the party that puts American citizens first which in the present time means I vote more towards republican candidates. Right now the democratic party is too radical for me, there are only a few moderate dems left in their party and look at what they're doing to our great country ...they are tearing it apart with their insane policies that are directly doing great damage to middle and low income people across the country. But good news is that we can turn all this around by getting rid of the incompetent dems by voting for republicans this fall and in 24 we can put a republican President back in the White House whether it be former President Donald John Trump or perhaps someone like the Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, truth is any republican will suffice over any dem...that's fer darn shuwahhhhhh! We need the kids out and the adults back in power to save this great country of ours!!

But anyway let me say a few words regarding the Holy Bible since you brought it up. This book the Holy Bible is a Special Book and so it's not just an ordinary book, but it is a Sacred Book, a Historical Book, an Instructional Book, a Book that is the inspired Word of God, Our Creator! This Special Sacred Book contains revelations from Our Creator Almighty God. This Special Sacred Book may look like one book, but it is actually sixty-six rolled into one and I wholeheartedly believe everything written in it because I believe and have faith in Our Creator Almighty God!

Having the right equipment is often the difference between success and failure. A climber on Mount Fuji will not use equipment bought from a mom and pop thrifty store, these professionals are really picky about using the right equipment as they know it can be really dangerous if they aren't.
Life as we all know can be dangerous too, so it is essential that we use the right equipment. One of those pieces of equipment is Our Creator Almighty God's Holy Bible. It’s like His owner’s manual for your life. Like any good owner’s manual, the Holy Bible gives you instructions and you can consult it when you need help. There are messages of encouragement, hope, inspiration and guidance that millions have discovered by reading this very Special Sacred Book. There they find satisfying answers to life's most perplexing questions and difficult problems.

We Read in Scripture:

16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NLT

Like I mentioned earlier, the Holy Bible is sixty-six books rolled into one. Thirty-nine books in the Old Testament and twenty-seven books in the New Testament. Our Creator Almighty God used as many as forty authors over a time period of many centuries to write the sixty-six books of the Holy Bible. This makes each book unique but even though each book has its own character and style each contributes to Our Creator Almighty God's life changing message. You might ask, "What is that message?" Well, through the Holy Bible Our Creator Almighty God makes it very clear that He loves us and has a plan to save us from the destructive power of sin.

So yes, it's not me saying anything, I have this book...this very Special Sacred Book, the Holy Bible which is the Word of God that says it all and yes I believe it all!

 

Or, you could have just agreed with what I said.

 

Excellent - rare is an individual who can manage to follows inspired scripture .. the Creator enjoys a little child sacrifice now and then and few are up to the task. In scripture we read how children should be slaughtered for the sins of their parents and/or others .. good that you wish to slaughter all the inhabitants of a city if a few in that city are found to be worshiping Buddha .. rid the earth of this stain ..

You hit the nail on the head mate .. Genocide - infantacide - and mass slaughter of the innocents is going to teach us what is true and make these infidels realize what is wrong with their lives.

 

Now what are you yammering on about .. "Most Scholars" .. The only "Scholars" you follow are those deceivers from those fundamentalist snake charmer sites.

The Serpent in the Garden is clearly not Satan .. as the Serpent acts against the will of God .. wheras Satan does not.

 

I think I see an out. It says he made the vow, but unlike with Abraham and Isaac it doesn't say God demanded or requested the vow, nor that God was pleased by the vow, yes?

 

Just to me clear, you are talking from Mormon POV, right?

 

Indeed .. the trouble with this passage is that there is no out .. as it is God himself that compels the vow from Jephthah.

Judges 11

The context - is even more clear if one reads more of the passage ..

1 Kings 16

Child sacrifice was not practiced often .. reserved for special occasions .. but was practiced . "in accordance with the word of the Lord Spoken by Joshua"

 

Try this https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_kings/16-34.htm your interpreataion is not accurate. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_kings/16-34.htm

think themselves innocent or safe, because the judgment threatened against them by Ahijah was not yet executed. The Bethelite — Who lived in Beth-el, the seat and sink of idolatry, wherewith he was thoroughly leavened. He laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn — Whom God took away in the beginning of his building, and others of his children successively in the progress of the work, and the youngest when he finished it. So that he found by his own sad experience the truth of God’s word, the sentence which Joshua pronounced against the builder of