Passerby shoots, kills motorist assaulting deputy after traffic stop

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Seth Bullock, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A passing motorist with a concealed handgun permit shot and killed a man who was beating a Sheriff's Deputy at the scene of a traffic stop.

    Much respect to that armed citizen for intervening and doing the right thing. I would like to hear your comments. What do you guys think?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/1...ist-assaulting-deputy-after-traffic-stop.html
     
  2. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This citizen not only thwarted the murder of that police officer, but also every future violent crime yet to be committed by the perpetrator. It is this un-quantifiable, but undeniable, effect on violent crime that citizen gun owners are having. More guns = less violent crime.
     
  3. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Good work by the civilian, and I hope he gets through killing someone okay.
     
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Another thug bites the dust; if the liberals had their way, this deputy might be dead.
     
  5. see you next tuesday

    see you next tuesday Active Member

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    "More guns = less violent crime."

    In america, absolutely....but not everywhere.
     
  6. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Law and order is starting to sink in already.

    Awesome story brother!
     
  7. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you could explain,
    Thrill Me with your acumen.
     
  8. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    LOL, no. Anybody can cherry pick.
     
  9. OrlandoChuck

    OrlandoChuck Well-Known Member

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    Every time a violent criminal is killed by a cop or a CCW, there will be no more crime committed by that thug.
     
  10. gc17

    gc17 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Before you kill the messenger this article is well sourced, many sources from the source libs love to love 'the govt.'. Besides anti gun groups wouldn't report this. https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm
     
  11. see you next tuesday

    see you next tuesday Active Member

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    I live in a place where virtually nobody has guns...and guess what! Almost nobody gets shot.

    I'm not an anti gun person - If Americans want to own grenade launchers i couldn't give a flying fudge.
    Personally, i think America should make gun ownership legal from birth and guns should also be given to tourists who visit the country.

    American is great, I've been lucky enough to visit the states on many occasions in my life.
    Compared to where i live, its a far more brutal and bloodthirsty society than i'm used to so, in a land that i full of guns i can completely understand why more guns = less crime.

    Where i live, more guns wouldn't have the same effect but that's because we don't have them in the first place.

    Vive la difference!
     
  12. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    And hence your "personal" viewpoint on Guns differs with your Countries History on firearms, you had the Original NRA, not America, firearms advances were originally from England, as well as some of the World's finest Firearms companies and competitions now famous, yet you would re-write History to suit your Agenda, yet some of us are Scholars of History and not fooled by falsehoods.

    Also, your take on "Americans" is not very accurate or true, America has a very diverse population and some very different Demographics and factors that make American society quite different from U.K. society as far as how People relate to one another, you don't have a Minority thug culture with a racial resentment and other factors such as Gangs and Gang Wars involved in commerce of illegal Drugs in so called "Ghettos or Slums with very poor living conditions.

    You are not perhaps in a position to really know important salient factors before making judgement on Life and circumstances in America.
     
  13. see you next tuesday

    see you next tuesday Active Member

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    Mate - I was using sweeping generalisations...a bit like you've done by talking about our history of guns.
    Yes we used to have guns in the UK, but, from the ground up, the need and desire to own a weapon is entirely different in our 2 countries.

    Here's the thing - i don't care if Americans own guns. If owning 500 guns of different shapes, sizes, colours makes you feel safe/happy then more power to you son.
     
  14. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Your condescending attitude is quite disgusting and proof that your social skills are atrocious and wanting, it is a good thing I am not ignorant of History in line with the statement by Cicero on History.

    You just keep on misdirecting and diverting from the topic so as to avoid the Truth about Firearms in the U.K. as far as how many contemporary people that may have no familiarity or use of Guns, I am sure that after U.K. bans, many people are of similar viewpoints about Firearms in general.

    I understand, having grown up in NYC, very similar in attitude relating to Guns, most people seeing Guns as either Criminal in nature, or part of Military or Police service and not a part of normal everyday Civilian life, People in NYC are not Hunters or Farmers and are not self sufficient or even particularly well suited to anything more than watching television and regurgitating political party lines.

    You are very much like our Liberal Democrat Politicians, Divorced from reality and History.
     
  15. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not sure what you mean. I've not picked any cherries here.
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Wow.. The passerby was courageous.. IMO
     
  17. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Given what is supplied in the OP, with the deputy approving of the use of lethal force, I don't see that it was anything unusual in a place like FL.

    However if the same thing was happening elsewhere there is a good chance that the passerby might be charged or perhaps sued.

    What I want to know is what if the passerby only had a tazer instead? Had he merely tazed the man doing the beating no one would be dead. Did the passerby only stop because he had a CCW and saw an opportunity to use his gun to kill someone? Because if that is the case them that places a completely different light on his actions.

    And to put this in perspective I would have gone to the aid of the deputy regardless as to whether or not I was armed. I would have put a choke hold on his throat and used pressure points to stop him. Between the deputy and myself I am sure we would have restrained him without resorting to lethal force.

    Guns are not the answer to every problem IMO.
     
  18. see you next tuesday

    see you next tuesday Active Member

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    Condescending? Mate, you've got the wrong end of the stick. In the Uk there are millions of people who think that America shouldn't have guns....i'm not one of them.
    If Americans want to own guns then who are we to judge?

    What i'm trying to say is that America's relationship with guns isn't reflected elsewhere - The place that guns play in US every day society is uniquely American.

    Like i said, if owning a gun makes someone feel safer than more power to them.
     
  19. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then the perpetrator would possibly have gone to jail for a few years, and then been released to continue his violent crime spree on other peaceable people. The 'perp was killed' result creates a POSITIVE effect on peaceable society and a decrease in the violent crime rate overall, in an environment where our criminal justice system returns violent criminals back out onto peaceable society to recidivate their crimes over and again.
     
  20. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Probably not. I would argue that, given the determination of the suspect to keep up a sustained beating of the officer, it would be reasonable to believe that he intended to kill the officer or to cause serious bodily injury to the officer. In every state law I've ever looked at, this is the standard for the use of deadly force.

    To the officer getting beaten, it didn't matter what the shooter's inner thoughts were. The standard we hold people to in a decision like that is whether or not it was reasonable and necessary, not what their attitude is about shooting someone.

    Or you might have failed. The article says that after the suspect was shot, the officer rolled him off of himself, said something on his radio, and laid there next to him. He was probably dazed and exhausted, and he may not have been much help. I'm not saying you shouldn't have helped the officer. I would too, even if I was unarmed. I am saying that you would either have won or lost that fight.

    No, but they are an equalizer. In this case, our shooter was a man. But the gun makes it possible that it could have been a woman, or an old man, or anyone less capable of overpowering some young male criminal bent on killing. Yes, a few people in our society would jump in and help the deputy even if they were unarmed. But a great many would be incapable and frightened, and they would just stare. They would do nothing. Guns are not the answer to every problem, but some problems can only be solved with a gun. Reminds me of an old saying ...

    "You may live your whole life and never need a gun. But if you do need a gun, you will need it very badly."
     
  21. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    I live in a place where many people have guns - and guess what? Almost nobody gets shot.
    :clapping:
     
  22. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Pray tell how so?

    The perpetrator could just as easily died from being subjected to prolonged electrical shock. Death by tazer and other electronic devices is far from unheard of. It is not a nonlethal option, it is merely less lethal, but still lethal.

    Choke holds are prohibited uses of force due to the ease of killing the recipient, even unintentionally.

    Show where anyone, quite literally anyone, has ever claimed otherwise. Show where someone has gone on record as saying that there is not a problem that cannot be solved by having and using a firearm.

    It has never been stated that there will be no problem a firearm cannot solve. However if someone is threatening your well being, and putting you at risk of death, a firearm is the most proven, reliable method of defense that is available, that will actually stop the threat from continuing. This is proven by the fact that police officers routinely carry them in the line of duty, as opposed to relying exclusively on other equipment.
     
  23. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Quite true, but as a former combat engineer, I can say that you only have to substitute "C4" for "firearm" to make that statement universally true ;)
     
  24. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    So beating a deputy, who only sustained minor injuries, justifies a vigilante death penalty in Trumpistan?

    That isn't how the Law of the Land works.
     
  25. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the situation as described meets the criteria for the use of deadly force but the caveat is the use of deadly force by a trained law enforcement officer, not a random member of public who had a gun.

    If We the People are granting anyone with a CCW a license to kill then there is a serious problem.

    In this situation I don't have a problem but it sets a precedent that is concerning to me because I can see it being abused by others who are "trigger happy". Right now the last thing this nation needs is an escalation of lethal violence.

    I might be wrong about my concerns but the direction this nation is heading in justifies them IMO.
     

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