Passport Gender

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by axialturban, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    48
    In Australia the Foreign Minister (ex-PM who is more popular then current PM, and who loves a media pedestal) has announced that the Australian Passport gender field will no longer need physical gender reassignment surgery to pick the 'other' gender. Now all that is needed is a letter from a doctor saying that person has the gender which doesnt match their external appearance.

    I'm wondering why this is a good idea, because arent passports used to identify people and wont this confuse the whole point of identifcation? One example being if someone dies overseas and the local embassy pulls up the passport information to see the gender as female but the body looks male.... they will correctly assume its the wrong person!! Isnt this going too far?? It sounds like it was setup to work best before this change.
     
  2. 317_tree

    317_tree New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It makes life a lot easier for transexuals and inter-sex people and allows us some privacy and dignity. If someone presents as a woman and has a woman's name but are identified as Male on their ID it complicates things a lot when traveling and can be very embarrassing, and in some cases it can go pretty badly.

    It makes some peoples lives better and it does not make yours worse, or affect you in any negative way, so why the objection?

    In the USA a Pre-Op transexual can also get a passport in the gender they identify as.

    In the example you give, how often is that likely to happen? And even if a transexual dies in another country it is not really your problem is it?
     
  3. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Transgendered people legally change their sex.. Its NOT an issue.
     
  4. Perriquine

    Perriquine On hiatus Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,587
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Best for whom? The person holding the passport, or people who don't understand transgender issues?

    Firstly, there's a problem of terminology here. Sex and gender aren't necessarily interchangeable terms when we're talking about a transgender person. There's even the question of whether sex refers to the outward appearance of body parts, versus what sex chromosomes a person has. This gets really complicated when we begin talking about people born with intersex conditions. Many people identified as transgender are also intersex. Their body parts may not match their sex chromosomes.

    As this illustrates, there is more to gender dysphoria than it being a mental state. That mental state might arise from an underlying biological issue, perhaps one related to an intersex condition, brain feminization in people born with male parts, etc. The plain fact is that our understanding of these things from a scientific standpoint is still evolving.

    Now, with that out of the way: A passport is used primarily to identify a living person, moving from country to country - not corpses. It may cause a greater problem for the person traveling if the passport notes a sex opposite from the gender presentation of the person holding it.

    Are transgender people just supposed to refrain from traveling so as not to upset the delicate sensibilities of some people who never have to deal with their situation?
     
  5. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,884
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Im sure airport customs see a diverse range of personalitites so I doubt dress and behaviour are important in checking the identity of a person, nor gender for that matter. Lots of people dress and behave gender neutral so its not a case of one or the other. I'm trying to understand at what times the passport gender information might have actual use, and if it doesnt match the physical body then does this change cause confusion. Identification can be very important when it comes to foreign travel but I dont see anyone checking gender with normal airport checkins and custom checks.
     
  6. Perriquine

    Perriquine On hiatus Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,587
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Are you calling 317_Tree a liar?
     
  7. 317_tree

    317_tree New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well here is one recent example of why it is important

    For the transexual it is usually a matter of privacy because having a gender marker on your passport different then the way they are presenting calls attention to the individual and it opens them up to harassment, even from airport officials. And they are basically being outed every time they have to show their passport while traveling, it is not just at the airport.
     
  8. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gender reassignment surgery makes the person LEGALLY another sex.. and that gender would be noted in their passport.. Its a NON issue.
     
  9. bigcrash

    bigcrash New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The could just change the question to "do you currently have a penis? Y/N"

    I think the existing question has to do with physical attributes and not sexual identity. I could be wrong of course.
     
  10. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Do you have a passport?
     
  11. Perriquine

    Perriquine On hiatus Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,587
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It is an issue for the many trans-identified people for whom surgery isn't a viable option.
     
  12. Perriquine

    Perriquine On hiatus Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,587
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The basic question to be answered is what purpose is served by the gender marker on a passport? Obviously, it's data used to help make an identification. Having a gender marker on the passport that doesn't match a person's presented gender is a hindrance to that.

    Think about it: When you see someone on the street, you assume their gender based on how they present themselves - not because you can see their parts.

    Moreover, our understanding of the differences between a person's sex, their gender identity and their gender role/expression is growing, and so the question arises of which piece is more important to know?
     
  13. 317_tree

    317_tree New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The topic here is about transexuals who have NOT had surgery being able to change their gender marker. The link I provided is a extreme example of what can happen when the gender one is presenting as and their passport do not match.
     

Share This Page