Patriotism

ANY system can be poorly administrated or abused. Common sense would select the system that can work well- then follow through with the actions and leadership that insures it will and does work well.
You don't blame the car for the accident of a drunk or incompetent driver. Same applies here. The integrity, ability and motivation in the leadership of any concept is critical to it's success or failure.
However- you don't replace a system that should work with one that can't work, unless you are very foolish or ignorant. Nothing can replace good management, and we tolerate far too much bad management- making that our real mistake.

 

We are discussing POLITICIANS often with vested interests and lobbies here!

IMO there shojuld be in any system, a safety net into which everyone contributes and anyone can take from, according to need.

 

Then- why work? If you need, just take what you need from others and live happy. The ubiquitous "someone else" will keep the pot full for you.

The psychology of societies load sharing MUST encourage individual productivity and responsibility. Unfortunately- the character of human beings is not such that our personal standards will not allow us to take undeserved benefits and as a result, live off others, discouraging them to work too. A large percentage of people have no problem with that.

A hand up is what neighbors give someone who is normally a productive person but in a position of need through no fault of their own. The old concept of neighbors helping bring in the crop of a sick person for instance- I saw this a year ago, when a farmer I knew handling over 2000 acres of wheat came down with pancreatic cancer. Nobody had to be asked, it was all volunteer- and the crop was harvested on time for his family. They knew if they had been in his place, he would have been in theirs. That's character. That's genuine help, a community combining it's strength to the benefit of all. When I for example have seen people in some kind of need, from a car broken down to not being able to carry something to the house, not being able to get out an buy groceries- I don't hesitate to help. In the last year, I've put a roof on a house, and I'm about to give away the second car in 12 months, this one to a widow I've known for a long time, whose old car is worn out and she can't afford something else.

Then, there is the hand-out. this is supporting someone who usually will not support themselves so long as there is anyway to get by without doing so. When you help that person- you prove they are right, as you enable them to continue as they are. You help them abandon self-respect, you make them dependent- and you tell yourself you are "generous" and "righteous".

Unfortunately, governments are miserable at understanding the differences between these two. Generally, they wouldn't help the sick farmer until his life's work had been scarified and his family destroyed, but they would help the person who knows the system and the terms needed become entitled to free money. This is how we have "generational welfare". I don't have an answer to solve that, other than to say it's a very poor system and we shouldn't be promoting the toxic effect it produces.

IF we had a higher standard of personal honor, self respect and independence, the percentage of people gaming the system of life would be far smaller. Maybe the answer is promoting our strengths and qualities rather than subsidizing our weaknesses and failures. That is where the real safety net is- strong people.

 

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In my opinion you are pragmatic to a level that makes a 3 Stooges act a sublime pun. I will, at this time, take on two of your implied positions. The first is that all should be responsible enough to be adequately prepared for any and all misfortunes that can occur to a human. Balderdash. We can do our best to prepare for every conceivable eventuality, a level to which very, very few aspire to in this manifestation of day to day existence. And secondly, I would have to question as to whether you are a believer in a god, or other supernatural entity that is all-knowing, benevolent, and loving. If you do believe in a God that knows “the count of every hair on your head”, he surely knows how you stand in this “preparation”, and knew it before you were born. The remaining question being, why did he create a person such as you that does not take that responsibility seriously? Why were YOU chosen to be the responsible one, and most importantly, what does it assign to you any virtue by fact of being someone that you were simply made to be? You had nothing to do with it, it was preordained. If it is factually known, millennium prior to your birth, that you would or would not possess these responsibilities, then surely your conscious and contrived actions had no impact on the outcome.So.....congratulations for doing nothing.

 

They were NOT protesting an election. They were trying to overturn one and they didn't care how much damage, including doing harm to Congress and ending GOVERNMENT BY THE PEOPLE, in the process.

In a functional democracy people don't violently attack the Capitol of Government and wipe their **** on it's walls.

 

The constitution describes the peaceful handover of power and is the cornerstone of democracy.
Enough time is given to challenge it and question the result.

 

Of course they were protesting the election result -- ridiculous to claim otherwise.. and of cours they were trying to overturn the election on the basis of purported Fraud.

In a functional democracy - people are allowed to protest - and sometimes protests get out of hand... See "BLM" protests which is were an attempt to overturn the system complete with violence and property destruction.

The claim there was an attempt to end "Gov't by the People" is misguided on a number of fronts

1) the protestors were not trying to end Gov't by the people
2) Your claim assumes "Gov't by the People" exists - which is fallacy. "We the People" lost power a long time ago -- did you not get the memo ?

 

Setting your motives aside- you have missed the message of the post. 100%. Your view of me is equally erroneous.

Let's start with the higher power thing. I do not believe in any god. I do believe in a higher power. Gods are man's way of identifying something that would have power over what they think they can't control- and one they can talk to, ask favors of, and excuse the lack of response with things like "gods will". I'm also baptized and was raised in baptist-methodist environment, although not an intense one. This was never a good enough explanation of life for me.

I spent about 20 adult years specifically and seriously searching, often painfully, for the answers to life- the ability to thrive, find peace and harmony; my place in the world, do all the things I believed humans must surely be capable of.

What is sadly funny- is that those answers are all around you and I, all the time. The problem is not in elusive answers, but in entrenched belief in false values and principles already embedded in your mind from your childhood, that blind you to those answers. The teacher- and the higher power- is mother nature. Makes all the rules of what works and doesn't work in life, and has done so since the beginning of time. Not negotiable, not favoring anyone over anyone else. Kind of like the mathematical constant Pi. Use it, your formula works; ignore it, you're always wrong.

Take this into consideration. Nature has produced millions of thriving species for millions of years, and their world was generally harmoniums, worked without religions, government, politics or any of the structures man has invented trying to keep him from destroying himself.... and they did that without poisoning or trashing the planet or using up all it's natural resources. I was fortunate to become seriously involved in diving- and I would often go alone to places on pristine coral reefs, and just watch the natural harmony. Everything alive, everything working, large and powerful next to tiny and powerless- all working. Every creature there and everywhere else can do something you cannot do- and that is thrive with nothing more than nature gave it. I always thought of the same question- what do they know that we don't know?

I remember the day, the place, the moment that the picture came into focus. It's like a pitch black to blinding white moment, unforgettable. I set about changing my life to be in harmony with it- and that has given me about everything I ever wanted; love, happiness, success. Total life change, that can be tied to a pivotal moment of understanding- and so simple, I can write the principle rules I have been living by for 40 years on a business card. That's the size of my bible.

So- having found such a treasure, one of my first thoughts was that I could share this with people, and they could easily do what I had done, but wouldn't have to do the endless searching. A chance to improve mankind. So I taught. Public classes, in "lifeskills", free. Corporate classes paid. Before long, I had a psychologist in a class, who asked to talk privately afterwards. He was there because a patient of his suddenly made remarkable progress, and he asked her what had happened- she told him, this class. He was there to find out how it worked- and how I knew it. We spent several hours on this, and he refused to accept that I developed the concept on my own. Of course, I didn't invent this, only recognized it. I told him I had pursued it, searched for it most of my life, and it enabled me to change everything I knew. He said that's impossible. I said- Why? And he said, because that would take courage bordering on heroism, sustained for years. One hell of a compliment, but not at all how I saw myself. I had no choice. That statement also explained why it was so difficult to give what I had found, as a simple gift to others. In all of us, there is what I call a foundation made of principle values. The psychologist agreed, these are sub-conscious things. They control the conscious thought and reasoning process- and you are neither aware of it nor able to challenge it. It's like it controls what the conscious mind can see as your list of options- and things not on the list do not exist, therefore you never have a chance to consider or use them. That is the factor that limits your capacity to think anyway other than your do; controls the scope of who you are. You can change superficial aspects of your behavior at will- but the principles that keep those within their limitations are basically not even known to you, let alone accessible. I found a way to read these things, and change them to be in line with the principles that nature has been using since life emerged.

No question, I'm very, very lucky, and I'm not like most people. Many, especially those who are uncomfortable with anything outside their parameters, do not relate to me well. That's OK, because I relate to me well, and those who know me well are glad they do. I live by what I know- and I thrive, and I help others thrive- when they are ready and if they allow it. The greatest sadness in my life is that while I can show how this can be done, I can't do it for anyone who won't make the journey on their own. My handle of Spiritgide was given by a student in the early 80's who felt it fit the way she saw me. That is all I can do- be a guide for those who wish to go where I've gone. Has to be their choice, because it challenges all you have ever trusted. Most who are critical, are really telling me they don't want to see a bar higher than where they are- they want it to be brought to them. They don't want to consider that "balderdash" is where they are at.... because that would say they needed to seek more. Much more comfortable to tell yourself that you have arrived rather than that you must face the challenge of the journey. That is what the psychologist meant; most people just aren't that courageous; they will not make such effort if there is any other choice than fundamental change. There is security in the known- no matter how bad is it. If you can settle for that, you won't be leaving where you are at and that means you can never arrive somewhere else. That explains why the creatures of nature thrive when we stay out of the way- and why while humans thrash about and struggle regardless of what we do.... and will probably be the first species totally responsible for their own extinction. We refuse to see beyond what we are now.

You are using what your conscious mind can offer you; reacting within the limits you see. What you don't see however, is the real limiting factor, and it is so for almost everyone.
No intent to offend you here- just telling you why I don't see things your way.. and, why you can't see things my way.

 

The issue isn't government by the people.
The issue is government by ALL the people.

BTW you can't end something you say doesn't exist.

I am fully aware that even on the best of days, democracy is compromised by lobbies, favours, promises, elevated priorities and other means. Right now in the UK it is bald faced lies but that i another story.

What is NOT acceptable (cynically, given the previous paragraph) is open, violent overthrow of the preference of the people. Third world countries do that when elections don't go their way.

 

Indeed - so why are you claiming the protestors were trying to end something that does not exist - not that even if it did exist -- the protest would have made a difference or was even intended to make a difference ..

.. and what is this "Gov't by All People" - most elections barely more than half vote .. and what are they voting for .. a choice between Red or Blue smarties ... both candy coated on the outside - something that looks a bit like chocolate on the inside - a "manufactured" product ..which you touch on later.

Two pigs wearing lipstick -- one Red - one Blue .... So better expect some pork - and no change to the "Status Quo" . - which is what ? What can change - Abortion - Marriage - Border policy - .. "Hot Button Issues" - to keep you entertained ..distracted from That which that can't ....

So.. What do you figure that is ? I have a raft of examples which will bring context and meaning to the equation .. but see if you can come up with one.. "Hint" - Many of the various platitudes "Necessary Illusions" sold to "The People" day in day out .. cause as long as they believe that .. The power structure is safe.

Yeah so
1) - a gaggle of unarmed protesters hardly have a chance of "Violent Overthrow" of the Gov't - nor was there ever any expectation of such .. just another clown show to keep us entertained and distracted - and who better to lead such a show than a Reality TV Star -- does not every good circus not need a good front-man...

2) Is it "another story" ?.. or rather .. is it not the same story - There is a reason why the number 1 US ally is Britain -- Joined at the hip in every foreign policy action - MI6 and the CIA .. just like in the Bond flicks Who among significant nations joined the Iraq nonsense . Who owns the US if not the old money families .. some of which are British .. Which two nations are the biggest tax havens ?

3) "Compromized" you say --- by Lobbies - favors and so forth. How compromized

Take the Pharma Lobby -- who is now running health-care Policy for both USA - Britain, and a host of other nations. The US Health Care gravy Train was 3.5 Trillion -2018. Total Federal Revenue for the year was 3.6 Trillion to put that enormous figure into context .. Global annual spending is roughtly 16 Trillion.

US spends double what other first world nations spend - for equivalent care - US actually middle of the road. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there is 1.75 Trillion on the table .. and that something is really wrong.. Where do the "Fiscal Conservatives" sit on this issue - and how is Universal HC not a no brainer.

More interesting - what did the Blue team do about this problem .. Obama had 8 years .. Obamacare - Lipstick on a Pig - doing nothing to address - never mind fix - the systemic issues.

Forgot the actual number but theres like 100 HC lobbiests for every soul in congress. - never mind the Defense Lobbies - Energy Lobby - and so on.

Sure we might have one or two that are not in the pocket of a number of lobbies . and good for them - but in a democracy the majority wins the day .. so I don't get every person elected to congress on the tit .. just enough to push the ball my direction .. and lets face it .. takes money to make it into Congress .. sure we have examples of folks who manage to get elected without massive cash injection .. but this is exception not rule .. and thus the vetting process begins .. most are already well vetted prior to getting elected.

Sure from time to time we have some lone voice calling out some systemic issue "Drug price fixing - Oligopolism - anti competitive practice"
Everyone then points and says "LOOK LOOK - freedom of speech - what a good system we have". That voice is then quickly drowned out by the cacophony on the take. Washington is a Pay to Play system - and everyone knows it .. you Play along - you get Paid .. and many ways to get paid .. cushy lobby position.. seat on BOD .. 65 million for a shitty book -- 250K a pop for 15 minute talk at a Wall Street Banker Luncheon.

Would you be the one to shoot golden egg laying goose - run against herd of stampeding bulls ? Thats nice if you are - but the majority won't be joining your Jihad - and there are penty of examples of folks who tried that Bull Run .. and it wasn't pretty.

You see -- "The Devil" is not to be found in the Hot Button issues - areas where Red and Blue disagree .. The Devil is found in the areas that Red and Blue does agree.

 

Yu should have a long talk with th authors of your constitution.
Frankly I have no idea what this ramble around language is about.
If you don't like lobbies either live on a desert island or lobby your congressman. Play their game.
Unfortunately they are everywhere. I know democracy isn't perfect but why not make it a work in progress, and calm down?

 

OK got that far with your nonsense, if the rest supports that, then I don't need to read further.

Government BY The People AbsaByGodLutely exists after 246 of constant effort to bring it to and end, and 246 years of defending it with treasure and blood, some of that blood came from my relatives, it STILL exists in spite of this latest tRumpian effort to turn it into an autocracy that would have served only Benedict Donald. Government BY the People is the greatest experiment in Governance in the history of the world, and OUR Constitution that established Government BY the people IS the GREATEST document EVER written by man FOR mankind. It's unbelievable that that has to be explained to anyone in the world, especially a fellow AmeriCAN.

 

Other than the throw away nonsense coming from your TDS, very well stated.

 

Patriotism?

Mark Twain had it right--patriotism means supporting your country all the time, but its government only when it deserves it.

As much as I like Tucker Carlson, he often speaks as if he cannot distinguish between country and government.

 

How nice for you, but did you even address "patriotism", or acknowledge his recognizing that, sometimes, no matter how well prepared you are "stuff" happens that is beyound your preparation, beyound your ability to meet? Or was that diatribe just about how wonderful spritguile is because he figured it out?

 

Thanks! I don't have tRump Devotion Sickness; btw.

 

You are the one talking nonsense .. who said the people do not exist .. not me ? -- These "People" however, have been turned into sheeple .. the experiment on the verge of failing due to this fact.

And .last - to address your finishing Strawman Fallacy - I did not mention the Constitution - never mind dispariage it as you insinuate - and it turns out that it is you who needs be explained the basics as any good "Patriot" would not forget - the Declaration - "Founding Principles" are as important as the Constitution- as is understanding the safeguards which protect the Constitution which clearly you lack .. .

 

You're the one said ... "and what is this "Gov't by All People" ... From that it can only be assumed you don't know a thing about what you now profess to embrace.

 

No it can't .. I am asking you what you figure Gov't by all People is ... you started rambling on about the constitution --- a document you don't understand - not linking it to this "Gov't by all the people" you claim exists.

Your position on the capital shows that it is you who does not know a think about the document you profess to embrass.

Now prove me wrong .. and explain how the people are managing to express the power bestowed by the constitution these days .. in this fairy tale perception of reality that you are troping .. living in the land of "Necessary Illusion".

 

You certainly seem ... overly ... angry; why? I have studied OUR Constitution and have grown to love it's scope, depth, breadth and comprehensiveness all in 4400 words. The shortest, oldest constitution of any major government. And here we are 234 years after it was ratified, and America is still the only government that gets it's authority UP from the people it governs. I'm not disillusioned by the danger our Government has just survived and the danger it currently faces. I admit I don't understand how Americans can pick an spray dyed tyrant over our beloved Country.

But, why are you so angry?

 

Must have touched a nerve .. no need to accuse others - "Overly Angry" - of your state of being. You claim to know the consutitution .. vunderbar .. but you have yet to show much understanding of the document .nor relate it to the subject of the power of the sheeple ..

No idea what the rambling about some "spray dyed tyrant" refers to

Sorry mate .. can't find a point in any of this tirade

 

Read your post, seems full of anger. But, I'm not your mate, but that implies your not American. I really haven't said much that would imply knowledge or lack there of about The United States Constitution. Your harsh criticism over such innocuous comments as "it is the greatest document ever written by man for mankind" shouldn't be justification for such comments other than your deep seated anger. I'm fully aware that The Constitution is being used and abused in ways that it was never meant to be but that's no excuse to call my countrymen "sheeple". The undeniable truth is there is nothing WRONG with The United States (or it's people) that can't be FIXED by what is RIGHT with The United State.

 

And I find it grossly obscene that these "protesters" were chanting about hanging Mike Pence -- not that I give two bits about him -- but if they don't have respect for the VP, they really weren't there to be peaceful. And do I need to describe what we've ALL HAVE SEEN splattered live on TV and played thousands of times since? Denying the events that happened and the motives and instigators of it only show how unAmerican the Right has become.

 

I never equated patriotism to belonging to a political party, the correct political party to those who belong to one or the other major parties or even to political views, the correct political view and philosophy. I know patriotism when I see it and it has nothing to do with political parties.


Regardless, I’d like to point out that if the trend continues that has developed over the last six months, you’ll have a lot more Americans, patriotic or unpatriotic vote Republican in the up coming midterms. It’s our democracy in action, letting people decide for themselves who to vote for. Who knows, there’s a long way to go before November and this trend could change and go the other direction. But for now, the trend is GOP in November 2022 and has been since August 2021.


There’s a large group of voters out there, patriotic or not, that feels Biden hasn’t done the job they elected him to and isn’t providing the leadership expected of him. That Biden and company priorities are all messed up, That Biden and the democratic congress aren’t addressing the most important issue facing this nation today. This hasn’t a thing to due with Trump or even with Republicans. It has everything to do with who is president and which party controls congress. It has everything to do with the situation today, not a year ago. It has everything to do with Biden and the democrats placing issues dear to the democratic base at the head of their priority list while ignoring the issues and problems this large group of voters, independents think is much more important than what the democrats are bringing up. Simply put, Biden and company have lost independents.


Because Biden and company are only paying attention to the democratic base instead of all of America, the democrats have seen their big lead in the generic congressional ballot fall from 48-41 in favor of the Democrats in June 2021 to a 47-43 Republican lead today. All caused by independents who’s issues they think important to them that Biden and the Democratic controlled congress ignores in favor of the democratic bases pet issues that aren’t helping solve the problems independents think needs solved today.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-congressional-vote-7361.html


Also, you probably need to read this in order to understand today’s political situation. I’m beginning to think Biden and company don’t have a clue.


America Depends on the Mushy Middle


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...ewsletter&mc_cid=16a30bce43&mc_eid=3b85baf05a